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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dragonblade" data-source="post: 5849573" data-attributes="member: 2804">Agreed. Main contributors to 3e combat length are multiple attack rolls per PC coming from different sources, two weapon fighting, crit confirm rolls, iterative attacks at higher levels, casters running turns for one or more summoned monsters, not to the mention the DM running sometimes multiple creatures all who may have multiple attacks or spells as well that need looking up. Cascading buffs and debuffs, too many conditions with multiple fiddly modifiers, and dense complex rules that nearly always require a lookup in the rulebook (i.e. Grapple). I find the Pathfinder CMB system an improvement, but still woefully inadequate in addressing these issues.I don't mean to sound rude, but if your 4e combats are taking longer than 3e combats than something is wrong. All of that stuff I listed above? 4e does away with almost all of it. As a fan and player of both 4e and Pathfinder, I feel that I can state that as objective fact.Most likely your players are taking too much time on their turn because they are looking up, or reading over powers they should already understand intimately, or aren't ready to act when their turn comes up. Rolling attacks and damage together can also help.Once you know how to play 4e there should be little to no book lookup at the table needed. Things like OAs and Grab are simple and easy to understand. Often explainable in two sentences or less. 4e also has a more streamlined action economy with fewer rolls in many cases.I hate using anecdotal evidence, but my group looks up a 4e rule maybe 1 out of every 10 encounters I run. In contrast, my group can't even play Pathfinder without the SRD pulled up on someone's PC, and multiple books constantly being flipped through.In 4e, the entirety of a players powers are right there in front of them in small easy to digest blocks. Players need to study upfront and be sure they understand how their powers work and interact with the game, but once they do, they should never need to even open a book at the table exact to read up on the rare corner case issue.Also, regardless of system, the DM needs to keep the game moving. For example, don't let players retroactively apply interrupt powers they forgot to use. If they didn't think of it when it came up, then too bad. They need to pay closer attention and use it next time.True. A system can help or contribute, but I think groups need to bear some responsibility as well.</blockquote>

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