Rule of Thumb for Balance vs. Reflex

[doktorstick]

Does anyone have a good rule of thumb that they use when determine Reflex save vs. Balance check? My rule of thumb would be that if it was unexpected, then use a Reflex save, otherwise a Balance check.

For example, a giant running across a rope bridge causes it to shake violently. Balance. Stumbling around in the dark on the second floor of a house and run into the guard rail. Relfex.

Thoughts? Thanks.

/ds

 

[DarkJester]

I'd say a failed balance check would cause a need for a reflex save. So, first off give the balance check (slippery floor, swaying bridge etc) and then the reflex save to see if they can catch themselves or whatnot. Otherwise, your definement seems to work.

 

[mkletch]

If Balance can generate a DC for the task, it is Balance, otherwise Reflex.

-Fletch!

 

[doktorstick]

If Balance can generate a DC for the task, it is Balance, otherwise Reflex.

Could you explain further. I don't understand what you mean. Thanks.

/ds

 

[Guillaume]

I'd say a failed balance check would cause a need for a reflex save. So, first off give the balance check (slippery floor, swaying bridge etc) and then the reflex save to see if they can catch themselves or whatnot. Otherwise, your definement seems to work.

I'd have to agree here. To me, the Balance check is used to see if the character is able to stay upright in difficult situations. Reflex save is more what happens once the Balance fails. He/she will fall down, but "will catch the railing instead of going over the edge" type of thing.

 

[doktorstick]

I'd have to agree here. To me, the Balance check is used to see if the character is able to stay upright in difficult situations. Reflex save is more what happens once the Balance fails. He/she will fall down, but "will catch the railing instead of going over the edge" type of thing.

Interesting. That could work. Then the DM has to decide on what situations warrant the Reflex save. As you noted, falling on your bum from failing to walk on slippery ice wouldn't warrant a Reflex save, but trying not to slide over the edge of the cliff after you fell would. I tihnk that is doable.

Thanks!

/ds

 

[Guillaume]

Interesting. That could work. Then the DM has to decide on what situations warrant the Reflex save. As you noted, falling on your bum from failing to walk on slippery ice wouldn't warrant a Reflex save, but trying not to slide over the edge of the cliff after you fell would. I tihnk that is doable.

Thanks!

/ds

I would love to take all the credit, but some of it must go to Terry Edwards who wrote Bogged Down an adventure that was published in Dungeon #91. The combination was used to resolve a situation in it. I won't describe it, that would be including a spoiler...

 

[Ramien Meltides]

Speaking generally,

Checks (both ability and skill) are used to accomplish something .

Saving throws (of any type) are used to avoid something . (typically hit point and ability damage or a spell effect)

Sometimes it can be tough to figure out which to use in a given situation (such as a swaying bridge).

I believe the text for the Balance skill in the PHB should normally be your guide, and in all other cases I'd recommend a Reflex save (as long as the character is avoiding something by doing so)

 

[mkletch]

Could you explain further. I don't understand what you mean. Thanks.

From the SRD, Skills I
Balance (DEX; ARMOR CHECK PENALTY)

Check: The character can walk on a precarious surface as a move-equivalent action. A successful check lets the character move at half the character's speed along the surface for 1 round. A failure means that the character can't move for 1 round. A failure by 5 or more means that the character falls.

The difficulty varies with the surface:

[color=yellow]
Surface                        DC
-------                        --
7–12 inches wide               10
2–6 inches wide                15
Less than 2 inches wide        20
Uneven Floor                   10
Surface Angled                 +5*
Surface Slippery               +5*[/color]

*Cumulative; if both apply, use both.
Being Attacked while Balancing: Attacks against the character are made as if the character were off balance: They gain a +2 attack bonus, and the character loses any Dexterity bonus to AC. If the character has 5 or more ranks in Balance, then the character can retain the Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) in the face of attacks. If the character takes damage, the character must make a check again to stay balanced.

Accelerated Movement: The character can try to walk a precarious surface more quickly than normal. If the character accepts a –5 penalty, the character can move at normal speed as a move-equivalent action. (Moving twice the character's speed in a round requires two checks.)

Special: If the character has 5 or more ranks in Tumble, the character gets a +2 synergy bonus on Balance checks.

The Balance skill is fairly restricted in what it says it can do. Basically ledges and tightrope walking. Anything else (traps, etc.) is a Reflex save.

 

[Creatix]

Balance is pro-active.
Reflex is re-active.


Examples.
1.
Trying to cross a thin beam in high above the floor in a church?
Balance - You ACTIVELY are trying to stay balanced and in control.

You fail said Balance check, now make a REFLEX save as a reaction to your falter to see if you can catch yourself and grab on with your hands.

2. You are in a ruined tower and stand at the bottom of crumbling stone staircase leading upwards. It looks shoddy at best and you feel certain that one wrong step will cause you to fall. BALANCE checks all the way till you make it up the staircase (as per movement according to the skill).

You are in the same ruined tower but this time the staircase is fine and in great shape. You begin walking up it. You set off an explosive trap somewhere as you walk up and the staircase begins to crumble and shake as you are on it. REFLEX saves to keep from falling