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<blockquote data-quote="pointofyou" data-source="post: 8843186" data-attributes="member: 7037848">I have never seen players like the ones you are describing and among other TRPGs I have run 5e well into Tier 4. But that's not super relevant.I don't get immersion the way you purport to or the way you describe your goal as being. I get immersion in the story though.I had a whole post in my head about getting people at my table and giving John Spirit of the Century and Bill the Alien TRPG and Emily Haunted West and Rich Blades in the Dark. I'd sit down to run using my D&amp;D 5e books and nothing could possibly go wrong because the rules don't matter. That would both be taking your point well past absurd and missing your point so I'll go in a different direction instead.I think that the most important thing about a TRPG is whether the people at the table think they have spent their time well.I think the primary thing most people will use to determine if they have spent their time well will be the story that emerges from play and whether they engage with it.I think most people will engage with the emergent story more thoroughly if they believe their decisions make any difference to the story and whether they are reasonable and reasonably intelligent.I think most people will find it easier to make reasonable and reasonably intelligent decisions the better they understand the situation in which they're making those decisions.I think the rules of the game being played are part of the situation in which the decisions are being made and I think most people will understand the situation better as they come to better understand the rules.If I were to hazard a guess I'd guess that last point is where we have an irreducible disagreement.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pointofyou, post: 8843186, member: 7037848"] I have never seen players like the ones you are describing and among other TRPGs I have run 5e well into Tier 4. But that's not super relevant. I don't get immersion the way you purport to or the way you describe your goal as being. I get immersion in the story though. I had a whole post in my head about getting people at my table and giving John Spirit of the Century and Bill the Alien TRPG and Emily Haunted West and Rich Blades in the Dark. I'd sit down to run using my D&D 5e books and nothing could possibly go wrong because the rules don't matter. That would both be taking your point well past absurd and missing your point so I'll go in a different direction instead. I think that the most important thing about a TRPG is whether the people at the table think they have spent their time well. I think the primary thing most people will use to determine if they have spent their time well will be the story that emerges from play and whether they engage with it. I think most people will engage with the emergent story more thoroughly if they believe their decisions make any difference to the story and whether they are reasonable and reasonably intelligent. I think most people will find it easier to make reasonable and reasonably intelligent decisions the better they understand the situation in which they're making those decisions. I think the rules of the game being played are part of the situation in which the decisions are being made and I think most people will understand the situation better as they come to better understand the rules. If I were to hazard a guess I'd guess that last point is where we have an irreducible disagreement. [/QUOTE]

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