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<blockquote data-quote="Lacyon" data-source="post: 4124982" data-attributes="member: 63046"><p>Well, about half of the monsters you <em>hit</em> will fall asleep. But that could potentially be a lot of monsters still.</p><p></p><p>Also, unlike previous versions of sleep, it's <em>allowed</em> to work on just about any target instead of the HD limit, which means it's not a totally wasted slot when you're fighting a solo monster.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Most effects in 3E have a set duration once you failed the save anyway (or something like 1d4 rounds or whatever). In 4E, the duration's not set immediately, but instead by the result of the saving throw. It averages to something like 2 rounds under the effect (pretty similar to rolling 1d4, but you don't get to know in advance when it will end. In neither case does having a high Fort/Ref/Will help you with anything other than the initial "Am I affected?" roll.</p><p></p><p>Using multiple saves over multiple rounds would have been a much bigger departure IMO than the new save system. It would also make balancing powers that end with saves significantly harder, because someone with a Fort that's 4 points lower than Reflex is not only 20% more likely to be affected by your Fort attacks than your Reflex attacks, he also suffers under their ill effects for 20% longer. It makes each single point of difference that much more important. Not only that, you would then have to track differing save types and DCs for each ongoing effect, instead of just being able to rattle off all your effects - "Save vs. Poison, then Slow, then Fire" and quickly adjudicate the results with a minimum of bookkeeping - the player can just roll the dice, check for situational modifiers, and announce "Pass Fail Pass".</p><p></p><p>It looks awkward at first glance, I agree, but the more I think about it, the more I like it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lacyon, post: 4124982, member: 63046"] Well, about half of the monsters you [I]hit[/I] will fall asleep. But that could potentially be a lot of monsters still. Also, unlike previous versions of sleep, it's [I]allowed[/I] to work on just about any target instead of the HD limit, which means it's not a totally wasted slot when you're fighting a solo monster. Most effects in 3E have a set duration once you failed the save anyway (or something like 1d4 rounds or whatever). In 4E, the duration's not set immediately, but instead by the result of the saving throw. It averages to something like 2 rounds under the effect (pretty similar to rolling 1d4, but you don't get to know in advance when it will end. In neither case does having a high Fort/Ref/Will help you with anything other than the initial "Am I affected?" roll. Using multiple saves over multiple rounds would have been a much bigger departure IMO than the new save system. It would also make balancing powers that end with saves significantly harder, because someone with a Fort that's 4 points lower than Reflex is not only 20% more likely to be affected by your Fort attacks than your Reflex attacks, he also suffers under their ill effects for 20% longer. It makes each single point of difference that much more important. Not only that, you would then have to track differing save types and DCs for each ongoing effect, instead of just being able to rattle off all your effects - "Save vs. Poison, then Slow, then Fire" and quickly adjudicate the results with a minimum of bookkeeping - the player can just roll the dice, check for situational modifiers, and announce "Pass Fail Pass". It looks awkward at first glance, I agree, but the more I think about it, the more I like it. [/QUOTE]
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