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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sword of Spirit" data-source="post: 6251496" data-attributes="member: 6677017">I don't think it's all that new (although it has accelerated). Rule-light games have been around and considered new and shiny since at least the 90s. I think 3e D&D got a lot of people back into a heavier (medium in my frame of reference) rules system, and therefore there has been a bit of a rediscovery of rules-light systems from the games that got their start with 3e D&D.In addition, there is the conflation of narrative = rules-light; simulationist = rules-heavy, which isn't true. While you and I know the difference, some more casual players aren't going to catch on to why they like one thing or another. And narrativist systems tend to be somewhat rules-lighter. And while rules-light systems have been cool for decades, narrativist systems were pretty obscure before 2000. Back in the 90s gaming renaissance, new systems were almost all simulationist, and usually rules medium. (Even White Wolf's WoD was sort of a simulationist, rule-medium  system trying to masquerade (pun intended) as a narrativist, rules-light  system.) Most of the truly rules-heavy systems got their start before then.So the progression has been from rules heavy and medium being the only games in town, to gradual introduction of rules-light, to rules medium and rules light being the main contenders with rules heavy falling to the fringe. And the progression has been from simulationist games being about the only thing in town, to gradual introduction of narrativist elements, to full-blown narrativist games. (Gamist elements can apply to either.)*Pause stream of consciousness to see what I am actually responding to*Alright, so history review on how I view things aside, I love lots of different types of games. I feel the same way as you mentioned about using rules-heavy systems for things. Designing your own spaceship--who doesn't like that? I once drew blueprints for a giant flying ship with decks that included an arena and a couple of libraries. It was fantasy, but I was essentially building a starship without thinking about it. Had I had rules for cool stuff, I would have used them.That being said, I do prefer the correct amount of rules for the desired experience. My goal isn't rules-light, it is "rules satisfying." I want as much detail in the rules as needed, and no more extra rules to keep track of. "Keep track of" is the key, since I love random tables. Throw in plenty of those. But subsystems will really bog down play if they aren't handled adeptly.What I dislike about rules-heavy systems is slowing down actual play. Taking a long time to create a character, provided the results are worth it, is fine. Taking time to build my own spaceship, likewise. Having to build stats for every mook, not so fun. (Which is why pre-made stat blocks for typical creatures and professions are great to have). The big problem for me is when we don't get enough done during our sessions.I love the rare experience of accomplishing everything I had hoped I'd get done in a gaming session, having had a variety of scene types, role-playing, action, etc, and then looking at the clock and realizing it's only been 2 hours and we have 2 more to go! Realizing it's been the whole session and I only got half as much done as I would have liked is extremely unsatisfying to me.So for me, if the rules are heavy, but the play moves along quickly (faster than 3e D&D, for instance), I'm game.I think people today are also trained to get more done in their gaming time by video games. When the computer is handling all the math, and all you have to do is point and click, you can swing through entire adventures with rounds upon rounds of combat in a short period of time. Sitting down at a table and taking 2 or 3 sessions just to get through a single combat is excruciating. I don't know how anyone ever could have played by mail.What I want is rules-satisfying and rules-fast, and I like simulationist and narrativist for different situations. What I think we're seeing is a general evolution to people liking their games to run fast, narrativism becoming RPG mainstream, and rules-light being (incorrectly) viewed as the sum of that.</blockquote>

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