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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 3271639" data-attributes="member: 4937">Something to argue over.&nbsp; That's usually good so long as everyone remains good spirited, hitches up thier asbestoes underware, and realizes that no matter how much they think they are winning the debate, they still look really silly for arguing over something so utterly pointless.Fundamentally the same thing.&nbsp; Basically, you would have class specific abilities.&nbsp; But a class ability is just a feat you don't have much flexibility in choosing and/or which can't be taken by another class.&nbsp; But however you implement your class specific buffs, it will still be by its very nature more complicated and harder to remember than the rules for which skills are class and which are cross case.The skill system is actually quite elegant.&nbsp; The only variant I've seen for D20 which is as good is the Iron Heros skill groups system.&nbsp; But I don't think it is actually better than the core system, it just trades one set of problems for another set and actually think dropped into a normal D20 game were everyone isn't some shade of fighter, that its probably more problems than the core rules.These are basically feats.&nbsp; Its interesting that you are taking skills away from the direction of being specific to classes, but are actually taking feats toward being more specific to a class by essentially making alot of 'class feats'.&nbsp;&nbsp; The fact that your design is incoherent like that suggests to me that you know what you want, but you don't quite know how to get there.&nbsp; Take my word for it that keeping cross-class skills is a good idea for the very same reason it is a good idea to replace most classes fixed class abilities with a selection of player options.What you are failing to understand is that the fighter already has actual class abilities.&nbsp; They are called 'fighter bonus feats'.&nbsp; Those are actual class abilities, particularly the ones like 'weapon specialization' that don't appear on any other classes' list (or shouldn't).&nbsp;&nbsp; What you are actually doing is making the rest of the classes' class abilities look more like the fighter's class abilities.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 3271639, member: 4937"] Something to argue over. That's usually good so long as everyone remains good spirited, hitches up thier asbestoes underware, and realizes that no matter how much they think they are winning the debate, they still look really silly for arguing over something so utterly pointless. Fundamentally the same thing. Basically, you would have class specific abilities. But a class ability is just a feat you don't have much flexibility in choosing and/or which can't be taken by another class. But however you implement your class specific buffs, it will still be by its very nature more complicated and harder to remember than the rules for which skills are class and which are cross case. The skill system is actually quite elegant. The only variant I've seen for D20 which is as good is the Iron Heros skill groups system. But I don't think it is actually better than the core system, it just trades one set of problems for another set and actually think dropped into a normal D20 game were everyone isn't some shade of fighter, that its probably more problems than the core rules. These are basically feats. Its interesting that you are taking skills away from the direction of being specific to classes, but are actually taking feats toward being more specific to a class by essentially making alot of 'class feats'. The fact that your design is incoherent like that suggests to me that you know what you want, but you don't quite know how to get there. Take my word for it that keeping cross-class skills is a good idea for the very same reason it is a good idea to replace most classes fixed class abilities with a selection of player options. What you are failing to understand is that the fighter already has actual class abilities. They are called 'fighter bonus feats'. Those are actual class abilities, particularly the ones like 'weapon specialization' that don't appear on any other classes' list (or shouldn't). What you are actually doing is making the rest of the classes' class abilities look more like the fighter's class abilities. [/QUOTE]

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