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<blockquote data-quote="tauton_ikhnos" data-source="post: 1400453" data-attributes="member: 16195">You are also not actively engaged, and do not threaten. If you are unconscious, asleep, paralyzed or not actively engaged in other ways, you ALSO do not threaten. Actively engaged is descriptive and conveys what I mean - it is not a system term. Please do not respond to it as if it is.We are in agreement, but you seem to have issue with the words I use to describe the theory (as opposed to the system-mechanical results).Unless you are knocked unconscious or similar. I believe you are treated as flat-footed at that point as well (particularly in terms of AC).This is an interesting point, and one which bears mentioning. However, if simply swinging the sword broke the invisibility, then you'd have to be pretty darned careful with how you moved your arms while not in combat, yes?Remember: cloud of probability. Until the probability seems like it might result in a successful attack, invisibility is all cool with it <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />.Nor did I say it did. Especially not since you are talking &quot;attack&quot; in a system sense, and I am talking &quot;attack&quot; in a theory sense.D&amp;D combat is not blow-by-blow. Theory describes what is really happening; the system only describes the RESULTS.Hypersmurf, you and I don't even disagree about the system! Am I communicating that badly?Untrue. If you swing your sword in someone's direction, but deliberately pull back to prevent actual contact, and there is no chance of accidentally hitting and no attack roll made, the system does not give any RAW indication that invisibility would end.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tauton_ikhnos, post: 1400453, member: 16195"] You are also not actively engaged, and do not threaten. If you are unconscious, asleep, paralyzed or not actively engaged in other ways, you ALSO do not threaten. Actively engaged is descriptive and conveys what I mean - it is not a system term. Please do not respond to it as if it is. We are in agreement, but you seem to have issue with the words I use to describe the theory (as opposed to the system-mechanical results). Unless you are knocked unconscious or similar. I believe you are treated as flat-footed at that point as well (particularly in terms of AC). This is an interesting point, and one which bears mentioning. However, if simply swinging the sword broke the invisibility, then you'd have to be pretty darned careful with how you moved your arms while not in combat, yes? Remember: cloud of probability. Until the probability seems like it might result in a successful attack, invisibility is all cool with it :). Nor did I say it did. Especially not since you are talking "attack" in a system sense, and I am talking "attack" in a theory sense. D&D combat is not blow-by-blow. Theory describes what is really happening; the system only describes the RESULTS. Hypersmurf, you and I don't even disagree about the system! Am I communicating that badly? Untrue. If you swing your sword in someone's direction, but deliberately pull back to prevent actual contact, and there is no chance of accidentally hitting and no attack roll made, the system does not give any RAW indication that invisibility would end. [/QUOTE]

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