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[Rules Question] Opportunity Attacks and Total Cover
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<blockquote data-quote="Skyscraper" data-source="post: 6417628" data-attributes="member: 48518"><p>I think none of the PCs should get an OA.</p><p></p><p>First, the xorn has earth glide. He doesn't burrow. He glides into the earth unimpeded - at least, this is how I understand his power: it has the same "burrow" speed as its base speed, and gliding into earth or stone doesn't cause the earth or stone to be affected. This movement, in itself, and to me, means that he has an ease of movement when moving into the ground. So moving into the ground, in itself, is not something that provokes OAs, no more than normal movement does.</p><p></p><p>The next question is then whether the xorn moves out of an PC's reach when burrowing straight down.</p><p></p><p>IMO, when the xorn dives into the ground, he remains within each of the PC's reach. To take the 4E squares system as a reference, imagine that the xorns is in the center of a cube that is 3x3x3 squares (i use the expression "square" here, but it is understood that they're 1x1x1 cubes, to be more precise). Each of the other squares are adjacent to it. The middle layer is ground level, the bottom layer is below ground, and the top layer is above ground and is of no concern to us in this example. The adjacent PCs A, B and C are in the other squares in the middle layer around the xorn. When the xorn dives into the ground, he moves from his center-middle layer square into the underlying one. This underlying square of the bottom layer, is also adjacent to the squares that the PCs occupy, albeit diagonally downwards. He hasn't moved out of any PC's reach, technically. Thereafter, he is "part of" the ground. PCs cannot drive their swords into the ground as a reaction to hit it as it leaves their reach (e.g. PC A), because they can't see it.</p><p></p><p>Moving downward into a diagonally adjacent square, is the same thing as any creature moving around a PC on ground level, from a facing square to a diagonally adjacent square. This doesn't cause an OA in 5E. I see no difference between the two moves.</p><p></p><p>I think, as mentioned by JoeLiker above, that this is also what makes this monster interesting and unique. It has a way to move around and pop up at unexpected places.</p><p></p><p>You can have an encounter with xorn be very creepy and unusual by having him remain underground for some time, before he surfaces to attack PCs by surprise. Each round. With the 5E rule allowing move-attack-move, I don't see why the xorn would do otherwise than hit-and-run, considering this power. To me, this requires the PCs to find ingenious ways to battle this creature. I mean: <u>why even have it surface entirely?</u> If you were a xorn, why move up onto the ground to fight? Remain underground always, and launch attacks from underfoot. (I had a battle with a black dragon in a lake against PCs like that in 4E: the dragon remained submerged at all times, at best it came 10 feet below water level to attack swimming characters in its 10' range.)</p><p></p><p>Here are some ways I see this encounter running, as the xorn does hit and run tactics from below:</p><p></p><p>1) The xorn cannot be attacked when it is enterily "within" the ground. Only when he emerges partly to attack with claws and mouth, do the PCs get an attack.</p><p>2) If the xorn never surfaces entirely (which I don't see why it should), then it benefits from cover (-2 or -5 or disadvantage depending on how the DM feels) if it is attacked</p><p>3) the PCs would probably want to try to find safe havens where the xorn can't earth glide, a bit like in the movies Dune or Tremors with the giant worms. Consider putting some terrain that is not something the xorn can pass through. An island of some sort. Or trees. It'll be fun, once they're on their island/tree, to hear the players discuss in character how they'll get away from this lurking foe...</p><p>4) the PCs could ready actions to hit anything that pops up in a given direction. I guess triggers and orientation are key here. I would probably roll randomly, with dice on the table for all to see, to determine where the xorn next hits, and if PC triggers work, then they are able to attack it.</p><p>5) perhaps some magic can affect it particularly, even if it's not mentioned in the monster entry? I would certainly welcome original ideas from players. For example, perhaps thunderwave forces it out of the ground entirely. Shocking graps perhaps forces it to remain in its partly ground-protruding position for a round. Etc... Of course, any type of paralysis would be most welcome.</p><p>6) perhaps the players can think of something to trick the xorn into attacking at a determined spot to be able to ready actions at that spot? Like thomping on the ground? That sounds neat.</p><p></p><p>I think this can make for a fun battle with an unusual twist, really.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Skyscraper, post: 6417628, member: 48518"] I think none of the PCs should get an OA. First, the xorn has earth glide. He doesn't burrow. He glides into the earth unimpeded - at least, this is how I understand his power: it has the same "burrow" speed as its base speed, and gliding into earth or stone doesn't cause the earth or stone to be affected. This movement, in itself, and to me, means that he has an ease of movement when moving into the ground. So moving into the ground, in itself, is not something that provokes OAs, no more than normal movement does. The next question is then whether the xorn moves out of an PC's reach when burrowing straight down. IMO, when the xorn dives into the ground, he remains within each of the PC's reach. To take the 4E squares system as a reference, imagine that the xorns is in the center of a cube that is 3x3x3 squares (i use the expression "square" here, but it is understood that they're 1x1x1 cubes, to be more precise). Each of the other squares are adjacent to it. The middle layer is ground level, the bottom layer is below ground, and the top layer is above ground and is of no concern to us in this example. The adjacent PCs A, B and C are in the other squares in the middle layer around the xorn. When the xorn dives into the ground, he moves from his center-middle layer square into the underlying one. This underlying square of the bottom layer, is also adjacent to the squares that the PCs occupy, albeit diagonally downwards. He hasn't moved out of any PC's reach, technically. Thereafter, he is "part of" the ground. PCs cannot drive their swords into the ground as a reaction to hit it as it leaves their reach (e.g. PC A), because they can't see it. Moving downward into a diagonally adjacent square, is the same thing as any creature moving around a PC on ground level, from a facing square to a diagonally adjacent square. This doesn't cause an OA in 5E. I see no difference between the two moves. I think, as mentioned by JoeLiker above, that this is also what makes this monster interesting and unique. It has a way to move around and pop up at unexpected places. You can have an encounter with xorn be very creepy and unusual by having him remain underground for some time, before he surfaces to attack PCs by surprise. Each round. With the 5E rule allowing move-attack-move, I don't see why the xorn would do otherwise than hit-and-run, considering this power. To me, this requires the PCs to find ingenious ways to battle this creature. I mean: [U]why even have it surface entirely?[/U] If you were a xorn, why move up onto the ground to fight? Remain underground always, and launch attacks from underfoot. (I had a battle with a black dragon in a lake against PCs like that in 4E: the dragon remained submerged at all times, at best it came 10 feet below water level to attack swimming characters in its 10' range.) Here are some ways I see this encounter running, as the xorn does hit and run tactics from below: 1) The xorn cannot be attacked when it is enterily "within" the ground. Only when he emerges partly to attack with claws and mouth, do the PCs get an attack. 2) If the xorn never surfaces entirely (which I don't see why it should), then it benefits from cover (-2 or -5 or disadvantage depending on how the DM feels) if it is attacked 3) the PCs would probably want to try to find safe havens where the xorn can't earth glide, a bit like in the movies Dune or Tremors with the giant worms. Consider putting some terrain that is not something the xorn can pass through. An island of some sort. Or trees. It'll be fun, once they're on their island/tree, to hear the players discuss in character how they'll get away from this lurking foe... 4) the PCs could ready actions to hit anything that pops up in a given direction. I guess triggers and orientation are key here. I would probably roll randomly, with dice on the table for all to see, to determine where the xorn next hits, and if PC triggers work, then they are able to attack it. 5) perhaps some magic can affect it particularly, even if it's not mentioned in the monster entry? I would certainly welcome original ideas from players. For example, perhaps thunderwave forces it out of the ground entirely. Shocking graps perhaps forces it to remain in its partly ground-protruding position for a round. Etc... Of course, any type of paralysis would be most welcome. 6) perhaps the players can think of something to trick the xorn into attacking at a determined spot to be able to ready actions at that spot? Like thomping on the ground? That sounds neat. I think this can make for a fun battle with an unusual twist, really. [/QUOTE]
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[Rules Question] Opportunity Attacks and Total Cover
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