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Message: <blockquote data-quote="SirAntoine" data-source="post: 6135209" data-attributes="member: 6731904">Well, I can't help but wonder if you agree with the Mormon bishop you've quoted, because the point of my comment was to help identify certain things in D&D, for those who have discussed the particular things. From reading countless posts, here and on other sites, I see a lot of discussion of "a sense of wonder" that isn't specified because it's a little too hard for people to put their finger on. Comments such as "the game doesn't feel quite right", or it doesn't have "that" sense of wonder as they put it, shouldn't be overlooked in my opinion, yet I've seen these types of comments criticized as not adding to the debate constructively. In your two examples, one shouldn't grieve for the second man, but it is still a matter of fact that his experience was different.I don't think D&D should be abandoned because of what I see as increased discussions and learning, and all I described, but it begs the question why we argue so much about the rules as if we're building a better wheel. The game has certain qualities that aren't easy to relate to others without experience, and it will always be quite a different game (even for very experienced players) if they spend time discussing the rules and options instead of making use of that time with story-related action, maintaining suspense easier with keeping everyone asking "okay what happens next". Players used to do that a little more--and my thesis is that this little bit makes a significant change to the sense of wonder people talk about, and really the experience itself if you were to look at it objectively as a newcomer or bystander. Do you see players "at the edge of their seats role-playing, and following the story--or fighting in combat with more rapidness--or do you see players doing a lot of pointing at miniatures and discussing in the most "out of character" terms possible what the rules are and what their options and abilities do?I believe the game should aim for a big reduction in such discussion, and a re-focus on the role-playing and "suspension of disbelief" to be had in the story-telling. D&D is certainly a viable outlet for story-telling, and creative and cooperative thinking, all going far towards making it certainly not a waste of time. You shouldn't ignore your responsibilities in some way, but so long as this recreation doesn't compel you to act irresponsibly, it should be given as much respect as any other game even by religious people in my opinion.</blockquote>

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