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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Clint_L" data-source="post: 9041413" data-attributes="member: 7035894">I generally find that 5e has a good balance of rules and freedom, possibly getting close to optimal as far as a D&D chassis goes. To me, it feels like how I thought D&D should play back when I first started and all the inconsistencies and nitpicky details in AD&D bugged me, even though I loved the game. In practice, this means that there is more weight given to "second-order design," so that the game feels cooperative - the DM and players are working together. That said, I really want to try Dungeon World, because having read the rules it potentially offers an even more satisfying balance of shared storytelling.However, one thing I note is that 5e is still a pretty granular game when it comes to combat. In fact, the rules are easily detailed enough that it can still be played much like OD&D: as a miniatures-based war-game. I rather think that 5e intentionally went back to more of an OD&D philosophy in that regard, striving to free up DM and player cooperative storytelling outside of combat while keeping tactical play quite tightly constrained. I'm a miniatures and terrain enthusiast, so for me this is a huge plus (I am resisting the urge to post a photo of the battle map from our last game).For me, the D&D rules scratch three itches, in fact:1. They are constrained enough to run a skirmish-level wargame - first order.2. They are open-ended enough to work decently with cooperative roleplay (though I think other systems are better) - second order.3. They are enjoyable to read and play around with in their own right - ???I don't think there has been much discussion yet of 3, but I strongly feel that for a certain type of gamer, like me, there is huge enjoyment in just reading rules and thinking about the game. Maybe rolling up different characters, or imagining the kinds of stories I could run. I don't think this falls into either the first or second order category, but is rather a marriage of an aesthetic and logical experience. And enjoyment of rules for their own sake is widespread - who here has not backed a Kickstarter or bought a rule book mostly just to read through and perhaps find inspiration, even knowing full well that you might not ever play the game?</blockquote>

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