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<blockquote data-quote="bloodtide" data-source="post: 9042216" data-attributes="member: 6684958">I started with D&amp;D.&nbsp; The Red Box.&nbsp; Trying to save the cleric from the evil wizard Bargle.&nbsp; So I consider myself that type of gamer, and DM: whatever I say goes and I utterly don't care about the rules.&nbsp; Though BECMI D&amp;D, much like 5E did not have rules for &quot;much&quot; anyway.&nbsp; I often bring up the &quot;second order&quot; type things when discussing D&amp;D.&nbsp; So many games add so much &quot;second order&quot; to a game under all sorts of other words &quot;gentile mans agreement, homebrew, theme, session 0, or whatever.So...so..so many will complain endless about &quot;the game rules&quot; and how the game is &quot;broken&quot;, when it's THEIR style of playing that is at fault and the cause.Take the beyond classic Mundane vs Magic:Player &quot;Flying monsters?&nbsp; My mundane pure melee warrior has no ranged attacks?&nbsp; So what do i do for the whole battle?&quot;DM-&quot;Sucks to be you.&nbsp; Mundane characters suck.&nbsp; Just sit back, do nothing and be quiet while the magic characters play.&quot;VSMundane Player: &quot;Humm..wonder if we will EVER encounter something like an anti magic field?'DM-&quot;ABSOULUTELY NOT!&nbsp; NEVER!&nbsp; It would be SO WRONG to force the player of a magic using character to EVER&nbsp;&nbsp; just sit back and do nothing even for just one round.&nbsp; Er..um...oh, I mean anti-magic is super rare.&quot;Mundane Player &quot;.........</blockquote>

[QUOTE="bloodtide, post: 9042216, member: 6684958"] I started with D&D. The Red Box. Trying to save the cleric from the evil wizard Bargle. So I consider myself that type of gamer, and DM: whatever I say goes and I utterly don't care about the rules. Though BECMI D&D, much like 5E did not have rules for "much" anyway. I often bring up the "second order" type things when discussing D&D. So many games add so much "second order" to a game under all sorts of other words "gentile mans agreement, homebrew, theme, session 0, or whatever. So...so..so many will complain endless about "the game rules" and how the game is "broken", when it's THEIR style of playing that is at fault and the cause. Take the beyond classic Mundane vs Magic: Player "Flying monsters? My mundane pure melee warrior has no ranged attacks? So what do i do for the whole battle?" DM-"Sucks to be you. Mundane characters suck. Just sit back, do nothing and be quiet while the magic characters play." VS Mundane Player: "Humm..wonder if we will EVER encounter something like an anti magic field?' DM-"ABSOULUTELY NOT! NEVER! It would be SO WRONG to force the player of a magic using character to EVER just sit back and do nothing even for just one round. Er..um...oh, I mean anti-magic is super rare." Mundane Player "......... [/QUOTE]

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