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<blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 9043353" data-attributes="member: 7006">And where we end up at just seems at the end of the day to be just quibbling over terms.&nbsp; Is &quot;Focus on what is fun&quot; the same thing as &quot;The goal of the game is fun&quot;?&nbsp; Someone who says they are is thinking and speaking one thing, while someone who doesn't is thinking and speaking something else.&nbsp; And that's why they talk past each other.&nbsp; In addition, there's also the question of the design of a game versus the game itself-- are those the same thing?&nbsp; Someone might say yes, while someone else might say no.&nbsp; And again, without that agreement the argument will continue indefinitely.I have my own opinions on these questions... and my own opinions on how &quot;fun&quot; can be used as a measuring stick, or the most important measuring stick, or the only measuring stick, (or indeed not used as a measuring stick at all.)&nbsp; And this is true for both the design of a game and the game itself in totality.&nbsp; But my feelings don't matter if the other person disagrees with what my opinions are to begin with.&nbsp; We will never reach an accord.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="DEFCON 1, post: 9043353, member: 7006"] And where we end up at just seems at the end of the day to be just quibbling over terms. Is "Focus on what is fun" the same thing as "The goal of the game is fun"? Someone who says they are is thinking and speaking one thing, while someone who doesn't is thinking and speaking something else. And that's why they talk past each other. In addition, there's also the question of the design of a game versus the game itself-- are those the same thing? Someone might say yes, while someone else might say no. And again, without that agreement the argument will continue indefinitely. I have my own opinions on these questions... and my own opinions on how "fun" can be used as [I]a[/I] measuring stick, or [I]the most important[/I] measuring stick, or [I]the only[/I] measuring stick, (or indeed not used as a measuring stick at all.) And this is true for both the design of a game and the game itself in totality. But my feelings don't matter if the other person disagrees with what my opinions are to begin with. We will never reach an accord. [/QUOTE]

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