Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Rules, Rulings, and the Paradox of Choice
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 6040805" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>I used the GM/player distinction because it's pretty familiar, but I don't think it's impossible to say that this role can shift through the course of a game. Who the "GM" is at any one moment might not stay consistent. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>But I'd also say that in a traditional model, the player can stipulate what's happening "in the fiction," because they control their own character. If they say Kyle the Swordsguy stabs somebody (or tries to, anyway), that happens in the fiction! In a traditional model, Kyle's player doesn't get to say what happens as a consequence of that action, but he usually gets to dictate that action happening. </p><p></p><p>The traditional model has a lot of strengths due to this division of labor into "player controls everything about their character, DM controls everything about the world." It preserves an element of dialogue, it helps pace the game as a continual flow of reactions, and it helps demarcate clear spheres of responsibility that remain consistent throughout play. It also hinges on the two main elements of storytelling, that is, the <em>protagonists</em> and the <em>conflict</em>, so it's a very natural fit. It breeds a fertile ground for competition and creativity within that. </p><p></p><p>Games that experiment with where that division of labor lies, IMXP, haven't been very satisfying in part because those clear areas of authority (and the fertile competition they breed) aren't as strongly demarcated. It's sort of like a milder version of why playing an RPG by yourself isn't very satisfying: when you're in control of everything, you don't have the same level of tension and unpredictability. Even if you used dice for half the things, it's not as interesting as with playing with someone else.</p><p></p><p>But that kind of group psychology is mostly for a different article. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> </p><p></p><p>I think we're in real agreement about 5e needing some ways for players to "do something" outside of combat that isn't as subject to DM interpretation. I want that as a DM (because I am lazy!), AND as a player (because I want to reinforce my archetype!)!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 6040805, member: 2067"] I used the GM/player distinction because it's pretty familiar, but I don't think it's impossible to say that this role can shift through the course of a game. Who the "GM" is at any one moment might not stay consistent. ;) But I'd also say that in a traditional model, the player can stipulate what's happening "in the fiction," because they control their own character. If they say Kyle the Swordsguy stabs somebody (or tries to, anyway), that happens in the fiction! In a traditional model, Kyle's player doesn't get to say what happens as a consequence of that action, but he usually gets to dictate that action happening. The traditional model has a lot of strengths due to this division of labor into "player controls everything about their character, DM controls everything about the world." It preserves an element of dialogue, it helps pace the game as a continual flow of reactions, and it helps demarcate clear spheres of responsibility that remain consistent throughout play. It also hinges on the two main elements of storytelling, that is, the [I]protagonists[/I] and the [I]conflict[/I], so it's a very natural fit. It breeds a fertile ground for competition and creativity within that. Games that experiment with where that division of labor lies, IMXP, haven't been very satisfying in part because those clear areas of authority (and the fertile competition they breed) aren't as strongly demarcated. It's sort of like a milder version of why playing an RPG by yourself isn't very satisfying: when you're in control of everything, you don't have the same level of tension and unpredictability. Even if you used dice for half the things, it's not as interesting as with playing with someone else. But that kind of group psychology is mostly for a different article. :) I think we're in real agreement about 5e needing some ways for players to "do something" outside of combat that isn't as subject to DM interpretation. I want that as a DM (because I am lazy!), AND as a player (because I want to reinforce my archetype!)! [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Rules, Rulings, and the Paradox of Choice
Top