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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Anubis" data-source="post: 373840" data-attributes="member: 2358">If you had read the entire thing, you would know that Saiyans are ECL +15.Actually, I didn't give all of their "cool" powers to the race.  Notice that the Saiyan *race* ONLY gets Oozaru form, monk abilities, tail weakness, and power adaptaion.  This follows the Dragonball premise that Saiyans are, in fact, natural-born warriors.The reason I chose the monk offensive and defensive abilities is because Saiyans obviously have more natural offensive and defensive capability than all other races, and so I gave them abilities of the class that gives more natural offensive and defensive capability.Considering they're ECL +15, I believe it is perfectly balanced.  A Saiyan with only 1 class level is Level 16 by default!Young Goku maybe, but not Raditz.  Raditz was a Saiyan Elite.  Therefore, I based the Saiyan Elite Epic Prestige Class on Raditz.  The power is appropriate, because remember, Raditz was seven times more powerful than the most powerful human at that time.I disagree.  Remember, Goku was born a bit weaker than other Saiyans.  Normal Saiyans translate to Strength +16 and Constitution +8, and this goes down if the Saiyan loses his tail.NO NO NO!  No one, even in Dragonball, is "born" with any amount of ki!  Ki is learned, not innate!  (That's why Goku learned his FIRST energy attack from Roshi, that being the Kamehameha Wave!)  Also, Wisdom is a VERY bad stat to use from ki, and furthermore, Ki should not be a numerical value, nor is it.  Ki is a person's life force, and therefore, the closest thing to a numeric ki value is, in fact, hit points.  For ki, go to the link to "The Big Big Book of Feats".The Saiyan can't possibly be evaluated until you have read the feats and taken the system as a whole.  You can't import just one section, because that would be ineffective.  To use this, you must also consider the feats!Tougher is accounted for not by a natural armor bonus to AC, but by the 8 HD, Constitution bonus, and monk ability AC bonus.Actually, I foundthem to be the same as humans in terms of intelligence.  They weren't smart, but neither were they stupid.  They were literate, meaning no penalty to Intelligence.I disagree.  No Saiyan was able to control his Oozaru form until the middle of Dragonball GT when Goku first did it, and even then, it was the Golden Oozaru form, not the regular Oozaru form.  It is not quite the same as lycanthropes.  I did, however, base the Oozaru form on a lycanthrope template, so you weren't far off.  You didn't see that?As a race, they are supposed to tower over most other races.  That's why they're ECL +15.Basically, you overlooked the fact that most of the Saiyan power comes not from the race but from the two classes they can take.  Once a Level 20 Saiyan Elite, however, we're talking about a MINIMUM of a Level 46 character, which is more powerful than most deities.  With a Level 20 Saiyan Warrior, you're still already Level 35, so this balances out perfectly.This does fit into any campaign, but you must remember that the power level needs to match.  Saiyans are nearly Epic from the beginning, so use them with caution and as nearly Epic characters, because that's what they are.  Ecl +15.  Remember that.If you thought this was powerful, wait until you see the Super Saiyan rules!</blockquote>

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