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<blockquote data-quote="Anubis" data-source="post: 423139" data-attributes="member: 2358">Wow, only 5 or 6?&nbsp; Even considering the monk abilities and power adaptation?You did see this part, right?&quot;Monk Abilities (Ex): Saiyans attack as monks, using the monk's favorable number of attacks per round, as well as dealing damage as a monk of a level equal to the sum of the Saiyan's hit HD and levels. Saiyans also gain the benefits of the Improved Unarmed Strike Feat, as well as access to the monk's Flurry of Blows and Stunning Attack, and they gain the Stunning Fist feat for free. In addition to monk attack forms, Saiyans gain a bonus to their AC as monks of a level equal to the sum of the Saiyan's HD and levels, including a Wisdom bonus to AC whenever applicable.&quot;As for Oozaru form, that indeed HAS given me A LOT of trouble.&nbsp; In my campaign, a (NPC) Saiyan in Oozaru form was able to defeat a (PC) Quasi-deity Fighter 1, a (NPC) Sacred Fist 16, and a (NPC) Sorcerer 16 with ease.&nbsp; Lots more power than the normal form, but with VERY limited usefulness.Do you have any balanced ideas on how to judge CR and ECL given that situation?&nbsp; Can you really give a creature two different CRs based on different forms?&nbsp; This is what has confused me and why I asked for your help, but of course you have probably guessed that by now.&nbsp; Really, I never thought that 60+ strength could tilt a battle so much!By the way, thanks for checking this out and helping me with perfecting everything.&nbsp; Do you have any ideas on how I could make the Saiyans CR/ECL 10?&nbsp; That's what my goal has been, so that's what I'd like to make it.Anyway, I just make sure everything is clear and that I triple-check everything.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Anubis, post: 423139, member: 2358"] Wow, only 5 or 6? Even considering the monk abilities and power adaptation? You did see this part, right? "Monk Abilities (Ex): Saiyans attack as monks, using the monk's favorable number of attacks per round, as well as dealing damage as a monk of a level equal to the sum of the Saiyan's hit HD and levels. Saiyans also gain the benefits of the Improved Unarmed Strike Feat, as well as access to the monk's Flurry of Blows and Stunning Attack, and they gain the Stunning Fist feat for free. In addition to monk attack forms, Saiyans gain a bonus to their AC as monks of a level equal to the sum of the Saiyan's HD and levels, including a Wisdom bonus to AC whenever applicable." As for Oozaru form, that indeed HAS given me A LOT of trouble. In my campaign, a (NPC) Saiyan in Oozaru form was able to defeat a (PC) Quasi-deity Fighter 1, a (NPC) Sacred Fist 16, and a (NPC) Sorcerer 16 with ease. Lots more power than the normal form, but with VERY limited usefulness. Do you have any balanced ideas on how to judge CR and ECL given that situation? Can you really give a creature two different CRs based on different forms? This is what has confused me and why I asked for your help, but of course you have probably guessed that by now. Really, I never thought that 60+ strength could tilt a battle so much! By the way, thanks for checking this out and helping me with perfecting everything. Do you have any ideas on how I could make the Saiyans CR/ECL 10? That's what my goal has been, so that's what I'd like to make it. Anyway, I just make sure everything is clear and that I triple-check everything. [/QUOTE]

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