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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Anubis" data-source="post: 423686" data-attributes="member: 2358">Hmmm . . . Wow . . . That's a pretty low estimation . . .UK, I don't suppose you could break it down with your ECL system for me, and/or point out where I am going wrong on the following listing?Here is how I calculated everything:8 Shapechanger HD = ECL +4Monk Abilities = ECL +2Oozaru Form = ECL +2Power Adaptation = ECL +1Tail Weakness = ECL -1Ability Scores +22 = ECL +2Anyway, that's how I came up with the original CR 10/ECL +10.  To explain . . . The Hit Dice are easily enough explained, of course.  I figured the Monk Abilities were worth AT LEAST two character levels considering they improve no matter what class the Saiyan takes.  As for the Oozaru Form, considering the limited usefulness, I rated it equal to the Monk Abilities.  Power Adaptaion and Tail Weakness balance each other any which way.  The Ability Scores are pretty darn high, which is why I gave it +2, because that is what a creature would get for getting that big of an increase in power, especially with the increases coming in Str and Con, the two most useful Ability Scores.Anyway, lemme know where I'm going wrong, and lemme know if you want me to explain and of the powers of the Saiyan, if yoy have any questions.  Then break down your estimate for me so that I can adjust things accordingly.Moving on . . .quote:-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Originally posted by Anubis In my campaign, a (NPC) Saiyan in Oozaru form was able to defeat a (PC) Quasi-deity Fighter 1, a (NPC) Sacred Fist 16, and a (NPC) Sorcerer 16 with ease. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------Originally posted by Anubis How?I must be missing something?-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Well, the PC was a Fighter1, a Quasi-deity with 8 Outsider HD, he was a two-weapon fighter with a Longsword +5 and a Short Sword +5 and roughly average stats.  (Average for a Quasi-deity, that is: 30/28/25/31/31/29.)  I think he had approximately 100 hit points.  The Sacred Fist was a multiclass Cleric6/Sacred Fist10, and the Sorcerer was a straight Sorcerer16.The Oozaru in question, however, had over 200 hit points, and never did miss with an attack because the attack power was around +30 or more.  Each hit did nearly 50 points of damage, and he gets three attacks per round, so . . .I will note for the record, however, that the player is NOT a min-maxer, but then again, players aren't SUPPOSED to min-max, so . . .Anyway, that's how it happened.  Needless to say, it wasn't pretty.  The Oozaru could smash a Tarrasque pretty hard even, it really is an Epic monster.  Just a very limited Epic monster.As for an Oozaru being Colossal, well . . . Those thigns are like King King size, pretty much as big as some smaller skyscrapers.  Maybe not as tall as Godzilla (Godzilla is 390 feet tall, or something like that.  My friend happens to be a Godzilla MANIAC, it drives me nuts, he thinks Godzilla is invincible, although I KNOW a Super Saiyan would smash Godzilla.), but easily as big as Tarrasque or a Great Wyrm.</blockquote>

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