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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Anubis" data-source="post: 430658" data-attributes="member: 2358">Everything is in the very first post of this topic.  I post all updates there, so you can always find the most current rules there.  I may eventually post this on a web site, however.  Maybe.Yo!Oh, you reduced the value of HD?  So what is the new system?+1 ECL/2 Hit Dice (50%) for Dragons and Outsiders+1 ECL/3 Hit Dice (33%) for Aberrations, Elementals, Fey, Giant, Humanoids, Magical Beasts, Monstrous Humanoids, Shapechangers, Undead (except for Skeletons and Zombies)+1 ECL/4 Hit Dice (25%) for Animals, Beasts, Constructs, Oozes, Plants, Undead (Skeletons and Zombies), VerminI take it you reduced the values like so, bumping everything down one notch?Anyway, as for the ability scores, I take it you're going with ECL +1/2 for each 5 points?Thanks!  Looks like I may have it right after all!  I was just gonna add or take away HD to even it out to CR 10 anyway, but I'm glad to see that everything works out in the end.  Thanks for the help!Well, basically I gave it all the adjustments for increasing in size from Medium-Size to Colossal, then gave it an additional Str+8, Con+4, Int-4, Wis-4, Cha-4.  Basically I gave it beast intelligence and stuff and what would be one extra size increase.As for it being accurate, well, an Oozaru can knock over buildings with it's fist and step on thigns made of steel, so I'd say the numbers are pretty accurate, if not a little low!I think you are overestimating Colossal here.  According to picture in the core books, a Medium-Size creature is about 1/16 the size of a Colossal creature.  To answer your question, though, an Oozaru can pick up a human as you or I would a can of soda.  A can of soda is more or less 1/16 our own size, so with an Oozaru at about 100 feet tall, it would be Colossal.You mean they would have been prepared?  By your standards, wouldn't that decrease the challenge of the encounter?  This one happened with neither side prepared.  In fact, the Saiyan in question was the fourth party member who happened to look at a full moon one night while in the Inn.  The other three booked it out of there fast, then tried to fight it, but failed miserably.  They had no time to prepare.The Oozaru, of course, destroyed the entire town during the battle.  It wasn't pretty.  If a Saiyan and an Oozaru were seperate creatures, I'd give the Saiyan CR 8 and the Oozaru CR 24, no joke.Damn skippy!Well, when I made that statement, I assumed that MOST campaigns started at Level 1 and advanced into Epic levels.  I never realized how so many people despised Epic levels and avoided them like the plague.  I honestly don't understand that way of thinking myself, but you have a point on that note.Well I wanted to avoid natural armor and damage reduction, simply because that's not how I see it working in Dragonball and Dragonball Z, with Goka and Gohan respectively.  They could take a lot of damage, even as kids.  The stats I present here are for adult Saiyans.As for the Oozaru, I think those web sites are way off when they say the Oozaru is only 40 feet tall.  The Oozaru could step on humans and hold them in the palm of his hand (you see this during the Saiyan Saga), and that just wouldn't be possible at 40 feet tall.  If I were an Oozaru, those numbers would make a human 9 inches tall, which is too big to hold in the palm of my hand, squeeze, or step on the human.  Another good example is that I have 9 inch feet.  If I were a 40 foot Oozaru, the human would be the size of my foot.  When Vegeta steps on Goku, however, you can tell that the foot is much bigger than Goku, who is really big himself.  Then there is also the knocking over buildings bit.  Therefore, I concluded that an Oozau must be around 100 feet tall, and thus Colossal.I created these classes because Saiyans have their own special ways of training, and their own class seemed appropriate.  I know it is not 100% accurate to the series, but I needed a class that would lead to the powers of Raditz and Vegeta, which is the basis of the Saiyan Warrior (Raditz) and the Saiyan Elite (Vegeta).  Goku, by the way, I counted as a Monk.  Same with Gohan.  Trunks and Goten would be Fighters.Anyway, that was my reasoning.  I wanted to give them their full Saiyan powers without making it part of race specifically.  It's for balance only, really.Losing power is attributed to taking damage.  Using ki powers costs subdual damage, and once that exceeds your hp, you're unconscious.  Not as serious in a game with healing, but considering the insane prerequisites and the fact that everyone in Dragonball Z was already AT LEAST Level 20 or Level 30, I think I nailed it on the head with the feats I created.  You can find the full rules in my "Big Book of Feats" thread.  Heck, you MUST use those to use the Saiyans properly, to be honest.Well we're pretty close.  Mine is ECL +10, or CR 10.  As for the Oozaru stats, well . . . I merely gave the size increases to stats, that's all, plus a few extra points.  Considering they can knock down buildings effortlessly, I figured you'd need AT LEAST Str 60 for that, to do it as well as an Oozaru does at least.Inspirational!</blockquote>

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