Ruling on AOO

[nycdan]

Okay, here is the situation in my PbP game:

An orc is on foot, meleeing against a mounted fighter. He has beaten the fighter to within one good hit of being knocked out, but has take a pretty hard beating himself. Meanwhile, a gnome illusionist, trying desperately to stay on a horse he cannot control (the dwarf who was with him leaped off to fight) just failed a ride check miserable and has slid off and is now dangling in front of the horse by the reins, screaming like a little girl.

The horse, confused by the melee has turned and is stomping (trotting nervously) back past the dueling orc and fighter (sometimes the dice are very kind to the DM). The orc, knowing that he is doomed even if he kills the immediate threat since the others are closing in, having finished off his underlings, sees the horse as his only chance of escape.

Now the issue...the orc is going to grab the passing horse in an attempt to pull himself into the saddle.

1) What is the proper DC to mount a moving horse?

2) Does the fighter get an AOO for this? Can the orc use withdraw or 5-foot step to avoid the AOO?

3) If the fighter does get the AOO, would a negative modifier be appropriate since he has already attacked this turn and is using a heavy weapon (heavy flail) and is badly wounded? I was thinking somewhere in the -2 to -4 range but if that's not appropriate, I'll leave it alone. The drama of having the orc be successful with the gnome in tow is too good to pass up, but I don't want to over-penalize the fighter in order to make it happen.

Thanks for any advice here. You guys have been a great help to a DM/gamer returning from twenty years of layoff.

-Dan

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

First off, is the horse a trained warhorse?

1) What is the proper DC to mount a moving horse?

Normally, there's no DC at all to mount a horse. It's auto-success, though it takes a move action:

Action: Varies. Mounting or dismounting normally is a move action. Other checks are a move action, a free action, or no action at all, as noted above.

Fast-mounting - doing so as a free action - has a DC of 20, and your armor check penalty applies.

Since the horse is moving and presumably unwilling, I'd probably require a DC 5 or 10 check - modified by the DM's friend +2 for unusual circumstances.

2) Does the fighter get an AOO for this? Can the orc use withdraw or 5-foot step to avoid the AOO?

If the orc leaves a threatened area, he provokes an AoO. Withdraw is a full-round action, which means it cannot be combined with the move action required to mount. Unfortunately, that does not cover the movement out of the fighter's threatened area.

Depending on where the horse is, it's possible that the orc could 5' step out of the fighter's threatened area.

Note that the orc cannot withdraw and then attempt a fast mount, since that requires that you have at least a move action remaining in order to attempt it.

So, maybe.

3) If the fighter does get the AOO, would a negative modifier be appropriate since he has already attacked this turn and is using a heavy weapon (heavy flail) and is badly wounded?

No.

 

[Coredump]

In general, what he said....

2) Does the fighter get an AOO for this? Can the orc use withdraw or 5-foot step to avoid the AOO?

He can withdraw, and fast mount, but not move with the horse, No AoO
He can move to the horse, then fast mount, and move with the horse, Yes AoO (Gets tricky if horse has already moved....)
He can move to the horse, and mount, and not move. Yes AoO
He can 5' step, mount if next to the horse, move with horse. (tricky if horse has already moved, and tricky because of 5' step. I am kinda unclear on how human action and horse action interact...) No AoO
He could try and tumble to horse, and mount
He could hit the fighter, kill him, move to horse and quickmount
He could hit fighter, 5' step to horse, and mount.

etc.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Minor nitpicks:

He can withdraw, and fast mount, but not move with the horse, No AoO

No, he can't. Withdraw is a full-round action. Fast mount is a free action that you can only perform if you have a move action remaining. If he withdraws, he can't attempt the fast mount.

He could hit the fighter, kill him, move to horse and quickmount

Same here - if it takes him more than a 5' step to get to the horse, he won't have a move action remaining to try the quick mount.

I edited my post above to account for this, which I missed on my first read-through of the rules.

 

[nycdan]

So if he's right beside the fighter's horse, he can attack the fighter and still try to quick mount? If he fails to bring the fighter to 0hp, he'll still be subject to AOO though?

It sounds as if the choice is: 1) Mount and face AOO or 2) Attack, then quickmount, facing AOO if he fails to kill and risking missing the quick mount DC.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

The DC for a move action mount is N / A, generally. It doesn't usually require a check. The only reason I mentioned requiring one is because the horse is already moving, and will probably resist being remounted.

He can attack the fighter once - a standard action - and then attempt a quickmount at DC 20 (probably +2 for unusual circumstances). If he fails, then he must take a move action to mount.

 

[Coredump]

I edited my post above to account for this, which I missed on my first read-through of the rules.

Oh I see how you are gonna play me....

Yeah, I didn't look it up, just took the 'free action' at face value.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Yeah, I didn't look it up, just took the 'free action' at face value.

Me either - and then I saw the following note, which I've included for completeness:

Fast Mount or Dismount: You can attempt to mount or dismount from a mount of up to one size category larger than yourself as a free action, provided that you still have a move action available that round. If you fail the Ride check, mounting or dismounting is a move action. You can’t use fast mount or dismount on a mount more than one size category larger than yourself.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Or he can take Total Defense (+4 to AC; standard action) and mount the horse (free/move action) and provoke the AoO, but he gets +4 to his AC so... Might be worth the try...

 

[Conaill]

Keep in mind he will also need a Move Action to "Control a Frightened Mount" - which also draws an AoO.