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<blockquote data-quote="EOL" data-source="post: 67142" data-attributes="member: 823">Touche!&nbsp; That is a very good point, but I cannot be stopped! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin&nbsp; &nbsp; :D"&nbsp; data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />The same example can be shifted to 12 Hezrou (same CR, 5x5 facing) with even greater affect.&nbsp; With a mere SR of 23 and a Will save of +8, on average using the caster from above with GSF(ench) and GSP and he gets a 7.5 right off the bat with a single casting.The wizard above is getting 9 skill points per level 2 does not seem excessive and speaking of listen and spot since they're cross-class his choice is one rank in either of those or a completely new language.&nbsp; Also, both example monsters automatically speak common....Now obviously I have taken the examples to the extreme, but when you think that Dominate Monster, a 9th level spell, would affect at most one dragon, demon, or devil and mass suggestion a 6th level spell could conceivably affect 20, even after correction for duration and a few other factors I think the net effect of suggestion has to be played a quite a bit more limited than the effects of dominate.&nbsp; That's all I'm saying.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="EOL, post: 67142, member: 823"] [B][/b] Touche! That is a very good point, but I cannot be stopped! :D The same example can be shifted to 12 Hezrou (same CR, 5x5 facing) with even greater affect. With a mere SR of 23 and a Will save of +8, on average using the caster from above with GSF(ench) and GSP and he gets a 7.5 right off the bat with a single casting. The wizard above is getting 9 skill points per level 2 does not seem excessive and speaking of listen and spot since they're cross-class his choice is one rank in either of those or a completely new language. Also, both example monsters automatically speak common.... Now obviously I have taken the examples to the extreme, but when you think that Dominate Monster, a 9th level spell, would affect at most one dragon, demon, or devil and mass suggestion a 6th level spell could [b]conceivably[/b] affect 20, even after correction for duration and a few other factors I think the net effect of suggestion has to be played a quite a bit more limited than the effects of dominate. That's all I'm saying. [/QUOTE]

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