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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8268737" data-attributes="member: 82106">OK, so you ARE following the rules for a 'Dual Classed Character' then! So, he needs a 17 DEX to switch to theif, right? If not, then how do you explain WHICH of the DC rules you are and are NOT following?Right, so again, we BOTH AGREE, then that DC rules are in effect!But again, I reinforce, you DID invoke the DC rules, BECAUSE THERE IS NO OTHER CHOICE. You need a set of rules which governs which abilities can be used, when they can be used, how hit dice work, what armor and weapons the character can use, and when. Beyond that there are rules for gaining XP, mixing in abilities of the first class, possible XP penalties for doing so, etc. I mean, sure, you can decide on a case-by-case basis which of these rules to use or ignore, nobody is disputing that. The point is any assertion that the PHB Bard rules are clear about this and explain it is clearly not justified!And again, you have already lost this argument as above because you DID invoke the DC rules. Once you invoke any of them, then you have to justify how the wording tells you treat EACH of those rules if you are to support the contention that the rules presented are clear and complete. The only CONSISTENT WAY to do that is to use ALL OF THOSE RULES. Even then certain grey areas exist as have been discussed above (IE some things about alignment, exactly which stats are prime requisites for the Bard, etc.). I'm not disagreeing with you here, but this is really just semantics. They have to follow some sort of rule, or some DM interpretation at least. It is the question of what rules govern THAT which is in question in this thread. Simply claiming that the Bard rules cover all of that, when they don't, doesn't magically make some rules appear to fill the gaps.Again, I'm not stuck thinking ANYTHING. I am simply asking specific rules questions, "what happens if X?" and seeing if the rules have something to say about that. Often they don't, even about basic core questions. And note, I'm not even disagreeing in any sense with whatever way you run it. I'm just saying that the idea that you are running it 'by the book' is not supportable, there is no 'book' on this, only some approximate guidelines (and again I'm really fine with that).</blockquote>

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