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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ciaran" data-source="post: 3236678" data-attributes="member: 756">I'm not the one who brought the specific example of "1 STR" into the discussion.  But if you prefer, I'd say that a fighter who's dropped from 18 STR to 9 STR is more hampered than a wizard who's dropped from 10 STR to 1 STR. The variability is irrelevant.  Yes, the RoE penalty is higher than the BS bonus.  So what?  Just waving two numbers around in isolation proves nothing.  Why not say that Shocking Grasp and Ice Storm should be the same level because they both deal 5d6 damage?  Why not make a healing reserve feat, because inflicting damage and healing damage both deal with hit points? Not everything is an apple.Not all cases involving the same factor are equivalent.  Specifically, factors involving your allies are far more controllable than factors involving your enemies.  That's why attack spells that only affect humanoids are much lower level than attack spells that affect any creature, while there's no equivalent for buffing spells -- you know that your adventuring party will consist of humanoids. And if you cast iron body, you shouldn't be upset that you can't swim.  Though I'll note that spell resistance has the same duration as bull's strength anyway, so you really should be casting your other buffing spells before you add SR.And if your fighter buddy was knocked off a 200-foot cliff, then feather fall would be even more useful, so feather fall is THE MOST POWERFULLEST SPELL EVER!!!!  QED.   <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> The more often a spell is applicable to your current situation, the more powerful it is.  The less often the spell comes into play, the less powerful it is.  And bull's strength is more broadly useful than ray of enfeeblement.For what it's worth, though, our campaign retains the original 10 min/level duration for bull's strength.  We think that the 1 min/level duration makes it pretty weak.  But it's still better than a 1st level spell.</blockquote>

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