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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Felix" data-source="post: 3237200" data-attributes="member: 3929">Re: Ray of Enfeeblement vs Bull's StrengthOne observation I would like to add is that comparisons of these spells have been taking place at or around level 10 when Ray of Enfeeblement is at its most effective. If you are going to compare the spells, then look at how they scale as levels are increased.At 3rd level, when you first get Bull's Strength, it provides a +4 to STR and Ray of Enfeeblement inflicts a 1d6+1 penalty [for a range of -2 to -7, which translates into a -1 to -3 STR mod reduction]. The benefit and the penalty are fairly equal, but Ray of Enfeeblement still must hit a touch AC, and the penalty only applied to one enemy; Bull's Strength is also only applied to one target, but he is able to spread the +2 attack/damage around to multiple enemies if they present themselves.At this level, Bull's Strength is a superior spell. Guaranteed results, equivalent benefit vs the penalty, benefit is more easily spread around to affect multiple opponents than the penalty is able to affect multiple opponents.Now, as is often the case when comparing spells that scale with level against those that do not, this changes. At 10th level I can't imagine using Bull's Strength much at all, if ever; by that point, many melee-oriented characters will have an STR enhancement bonus item and the spell won't help much. So near and certainly past 10th level, I would argue that Bull's Strength has fairly well outlived its usefulness.Ray of Enfeeblement scales wonderfully and increases in utility as you approach level 10, but this does not mean that it is overpowered for its spell level. Much the reverse of how Sleep is a fantastic spell at 1st level but quickly loses its efficasy, Ray of Enfeeblement is a moderately good 1st level spell at low levels, but matures into a wonderful de-buff spell. Granted, it's a de-buff spell that you will generally only want to use on those big no-SR, low-touch AC, non-concealed, non-covered, non-engaged in melee enemies you suspect will be fighting you for more than a round or two, but that kind of enemy is common enough to rate preparing or knowing Ray of Enfeeblement.</blockquote>

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