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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pming" data-source="post: 7452171" data-attributes="member: 45197">Hiya!Ahhh...I misread. My bad, sorry! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I disagree with it being too harsh though. Technically, every death in the campaign is directly contributed to the DM...even PC vs PC, as the DM could have chosen to have the fight interrupted by something/somebody. But I don't think that's what you were aiming for, right? More along the line of "the DM rolled an encounter, it came up Hill Giant, there is an Ogre encounter possibility, so the DM could have chosen Ogre so the PC's had a much better chance of survival....but he/she went with Hill Giant". That kind of "direct control" is what you are referring to?If so...I still disagree. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />   Now, if the PC's encounter a Hill Giant, and that chance is 2-in-20. They fight...one dies, the others are REALLY hammered down. They move a few hundred feet away from the carcass and set up camp with no camp fire to rest for 12'ish hours until the next morning. The DM rolls for a night encounter, at reduced chances due to no fire and other PC actions. And the PC's STILL get an encounter due to a 'bad roll'. The DM rolls encounter and gets...Hill Giant. NOW the DM has a choice to make. Most DM's would choose to ignore it to give the PC's a break. I am not most DM's, so I wouldn't...they'd still have an encounter. Some DM's might choose to keep the encounter, but 'downgrade' it to Ogre, or maybe even Orcs(3). That's fair enough...and I do admit that I have done this on rare occasion. Usually if the PC's have been beset by the cruel hand of fate (really bad dice rolls all night), or if I have a particular fondness for the group as a whole. Every now and then my players will make a group of PC's that are just so damn fun to DM...it's sad when the dice say "Nope. You gunna diiii...!". But, still, rarely. Some DM's, such as me, would probably STILL have the Hill Giant show up. Usually with a sneak attack of a thrown bolder at one of them from the darkness. Cruel? Maybe from their perspective, but no. I don't think so. Uncaring? Yes. Unfortunate? Definitely. Winnable? Possibly. Fair? Yes.This sort of "harsh lesson" reinforces that, yes, commoners, travelers and other adventurers information is worth money...sometimes MORE than money. This reinforces the "world" as a believable location, where when the locals all say "Don't travel too near the Jotuns! Unless you fancy seeing the inside of a giants belt sack"...they aren't just 'being colourful' with the warning; they're actually telling the truth. In my games, NPC's and yes, even monsters, if captured will generally tell the truth (exceptions are there, like fanatics of a religion or charmed/dominated, etc). There is a reason for the saying "A persons word is their bond". Without this general world-acceptance, the world would be significantly darker (a.k.a., The Old World from Warhammer).Definitely...especially when the PC's manage to get one of those "well oiled machine" groups where each PC's capabilities, personality, skills, backgrounds, etc all mesh perfectly. Those are sad to see go down. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown    :("  data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" />I think offering a "TPK" as a solution is, well, a solution. Not the only solution, obviously, but there are some times when it's the most logical solution. At least as far as the campaign goes. Note, Campaign, not PC's. I am firmly of the belief that if it comes down to either the campaign world getting screwed in some permanent way, or the PC's getting screwed in some permanent way...the DM should always err on the side of screwing the PC's.Why Campaign over PC's? If the Campaign is being run 'old skool', meaning it's a single campaign setting with a consistent history (including PC's) and timeline, then it is more important. If the "Campaign" is being run 'new skool', meaning a single "adventure path/storybook" where what happens before or after it is non-material, then maybe err on the side of PC's. Obviously I feel that an old skool campaign is superior by leaps and bounds, there are a lot of folks who prefer the 'one and done' sort of 'episodic' campaigns. One of the key things for a believable "old skool" campaign is consistency; and this means that TPK's will happen due to various encounter charts, histories of an area, backgrounds of a city, temperaments of an ocean/sea/river, etc. The DM, imho, shouldn't change "the world" by ignoring his rolls and whatnot. May be fine once, but the more it happens, the less and less consistently believable the world becomes and the more and more the players start to feel like "the DM wouldn't do X to us because of Y". And when you have Players that are expecting X and get Q...whining, complaining, disappointment, and tears tend to accompany. I mean, they've been traveling around the Giant Hills for weeks and have only encountered 1 hill giant from about  a kilometer away. Now, suddenly, POOF! We are attacked at night by THREE of them?! The DM just wanted to kill us! Totally unfair!Anyway, this is getting long...again...(I have an explanation problem! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> ). Suffice it to say, a TPK is a solution...although it may be a solution some DM's aren't willing to or aren't comfortable with. I'm just giving my 2¢ on it in regards to my experience and preference.^_^Paul L. Ming</blockquote>

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