Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="pming" data-source="post: 7452322" data-attributes="member: 45197">Hiya!I agree that there is a series of decisions a DM makes that leads to a TPK. I do not see this as wrong or a bad thing.The DM rolls a very difficult encounter. Check (NOTE: I removed "picks", because I don't do that; I have encounter chances and table for a reason...to help me remain neutral and unconcerned about the outcome).The DM doesn't give ample warning of a potentially deadly (TPK) encounter. Not my job to keep the PC's safe. My job is to be the cold, cruel and uncaring 'world'. It doesn't care if you are only 3rd level...if there is a chance of meeting, however slim, a huge, ancient red dragon in the Dragon Hills, and the dice come up 01. Not my problem. Sorry, PC's. Death is highly likely unless they take immediate and successful 'evasive/pre-emptive' measures (like jump behind whatever is closes...rock, tree, horse, etc). I would also point out I do use the "Monster Reaction Table" (mine, I think I based it off of BECMI or 1e...honestly can't remember; it includes reasons for the monsters appearance...traveling, hunting, searching for something, fleeing, wandering, etc). So it is entirely possible to have a potential TPK turned instantly into a "small break for the PC's as they wash their loincloths in a creek" after a huge, ancient red dragon flies overhead on it's way to a nearby lake to get a drink of water).The DM does not allow for other ways of dealing...other than combat. Check/agree. This would fall into the "being a Richard" more than "setting up for TPK 'jus cause'.The DM does nothing to mitigate the deadliness of the encounter. Check. Again...not my job to make the PC's lives 'safe'. Sometimes dice just have it in for PC's...just like sometimes the PC's dice have it in for a monster, or a challengeing skill situation, or an NPC. I don't "fudge" the DC's to make it impossible/harder for them to succeed...why should I do it the other way? All that does is lead to the Players getting used to "the DM won't let us die...not a TPK anyway..."; and then when a TPK does happen, they are shocked/surprised and pissed off because NOW it's "unfair". Best to nip that little "the DM will save us" subconscious (or conscious) idea right from the get go.The DM has the monsters pursue PC's who try to flee. Check. Again, I have a "monster reaction" and "morale" tables I use to help in deciding. Pretty sure it's from 1e and/or Hackmaster 4th. Basically, there's a Percentage Chance a monster will 'succeed'. It keeps fighting if it succeeds. If it fails, it's reaction is based on by how much it failed. Modifiers to Morale are done before the roll. The more it fails, the more likely it will surrender or flee...the less it fails, the more likely it is to disengage or try and do a fighting withdrawl. If the PC's press the attack, well, yeah...it keeps fighting. Obviously.The DM has the monsters kill any down but living PCs. Check. This depends on far too many factors. Intelligent ones may "coup de grais" because they know better. Stupid ones...maybe yes, maybe no. I base this chance on why the creature was encountered in the first place (if it's hunting...it's hungry; it will probably start eating right away, or try to drag off the downed PC...this could result in death). If a DM has every monster resort to "killing a downed opponent" regardless of situation, intelligence, alignment, etc...then the DM is being more "Richard'ish" than Neutral.I think the "up side" to a TPK...if you can even call a TPK that...is reinforcing the Players suspension of disbelief and their believably of the campaign itself. I mean, look at serial TV shows. Are they entertaining? Yeah, could be (face it, most TV sucks). But why do shows like Babylon 5 (old sci-fi show), Game of Thrones, and various Netflix/HBO shows have such high regards and followings? Because the viewers BELIEVE that at any time, if a character gets into a situation where they are likely to die...they WILL LIKELY DIE. I mean, in the first season, when one of the "obviously main characters" (Lord Stark) is captured, beaten, etc, and about to be killed...  (1) In a more "new skool" style campaign, he wouldn't die. Something would miraculously happen (Deus Ex Machina) to stop or otherwise postpone the execution...giving the "PC" another opportunity to escape. ...-or-... (2) In a more "old skool" (like my games), he dies. That's it. Dead. Head, off. The "PC" doesn't escape. His execution isn't postponed by a freak attack by some unknown army at the gates, or some monster swooping down, or a guard rebellion, or anything. Dead. Sorry. Grab the dice and roll up a new 1st level PC.People like GoT for a lot of reasons...one of which is because at any time, any 'major' character can be killed or severely screwed over. The Red Wedding episode? TPK. It didn't stop the campaign. It changed it. The TPK may have been "unfortunate" to the PC's involved, sure...but better to TPK and continue the story, adding depth to the campaign history and giving both the Players and the DM a very cool and powerful 'hook' for backgrounds, goals, hatreds, rivalries, etc...then to "just capture them instead". At least in my not so humble opinion. Then again -->[self]<-- = "Killer DM", remember? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />I think it really boils down to how much "realism/simulation" versus how much "serialisation/narrativist" a DM and the Players are. Obviously I fall into the first style. You may fall into more of the second, or likely some combination. I can see the benefit to avoiding TPK's in that it makes the game 'lighter' and easier to just play and have fun rolling dice, seeing what unfolds, and role-playing. But I just find more benefits to letting the dice help tell the story...even if that story ends in tragedy.^_^Paul L. Ming</blockquote>

Verification