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<blockquote data-quote="pming" data-source="post: 6614005" data-attributes="member: 45197">Hiya!&nbsp; The first thing you need to do is realize there is no spoon. What that means is you need to stop approaching 5e &quot;rules&quot; from a 3.x/4e/PF mentality. Stop looking for &quot;absolutes&quot; in the game rules. You will be sorely disappointing and constantly annoyed by the simple fact that there are very little of these absolutes in the game. &nbsp; You can't just say &quot;forcing past foe = DC 15&quot; and be done with it. That just does not make any sense at all from a &quot;realism&quot; side of things, and definitely not from a 5e rules side of things. There are a hundred and one things that could all affect the DC...and your DM can guesstimate all of them in a couple of seconds. This is FAR superior to spending three and a half minutes leafing through pages of charts and tables with modifiers, adding them all up, and adding that to some &quot;set in stone&quot; DC that was in all likelihood arbitrarily decided on anyway by the designers.&nbsp; Your DM can use the standard DC's and just pick one that fits for the base (DC 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30). Or, he can base it on the opponents Dexterity score. Or average of Dex + Int. Or maybe on 30 - base AC. Or any number of other factors that could be coming into play during that particular situation. The point is...the DC will be based on the situation. And trying to dumb everything down to an absolute &quot;DC = X in situation Y&quot; is a loosing battle and one that will make for a much more bland and poorer game experience....IMHO, of course. A base &quot;DC = X, modified by whatever&quot; is a MUCH better solution.Oh, and me? I'd probably choose the 30 - base AC route, modified by situation (slippery floor, damage done to foe, type of weapon foe has, ...all those hundred-and-one things that go through a DM's mind when thinking about this kind of thing)...if my players had to have something carved into stone for some reason. Luckily I don't have players like that. Sometimes I may just pick a DC and say &quot;Dex Save at X&quot; just to keep things moving or when it really isn't all that important. Sometimes I might make it based on and average of Str + Con. And sometimes I'd just say &quot;No&quot; or &quot;Yes&quot;. The situation is the key to the whole thing and a good DM will learn what &quot;feels right&quot; the more they DM.^_^Paul L. Ming</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pming, post: 6614005, member: 45197"] Hiya! The first thing you need to do is realize there [I]is no spoon[/I]. What that means is you need to stop approaching 5e "rules" from a 3.x/4e/PF mentality. Stop looking for "absolutes" in the game rules. You will be sorely disappointing and constantly annoyed by the simple fact that there are very little of these absolutes in the game. You can't just say "forcing past foe = DC 15" and be done with it. That just does not make any sense at all from a "realism" side of things, and definitely not from a 5e rules side of things. There are a hundred and one things that could all affect the DC...and your DM can guesstimate all of them in a couple of seconds. This is FAR superior to spending three and a half minutes leafing through pages of charts and tables with modifiers, adding them all up, and adding that to some "set in stone" DC that was in all likelihood arbitrarily decided on anyway by the designers. Your DM can use the standard DC's and just pick one that fits for the base (DC 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30). Or, he can base it on the opponents Dexterity score. Or average of Dex + Int. Or maybe on 30 - base AC. Or any number of other factors that could be coming into play during that particular situation. The point is...the DC will be based on the situation. And trying to dumb everything down to an absolute "DC = X in situation Y" is a loosing battle and one that will make for a much more bland and poorer game experience....IMHO, of course. A base "DC = X, modified by whatever" is a MUCH better solution. Oh, and me? I'd probably choose the 30 - base AC route, modified by situation (slippery floor, damage done to foe, type of weapon foe has, ...all those hundred-and-one things that go through a DM's mind when thinking about this kind of thing)...if my players had to have something carved into stone for some reason. Luckily I don't have players like that. Sometimes I may just pick a DC and say "Dex Save at X" just to keep things moving or when it really isn't all that important. Sometimes I might make it based on and average of Str + Con. And sometimes I'd just say "No" or "Yes". The situation is the key to the whole thing and a good DM will learn what "feels right" the more they DM. ^_^ Paul L. Ming [/QUOTE]

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