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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ClaytonCross" data-source="post: 7286982" data-attributes="member: 6880599">Your right I was debating with [MENTION=6775031]Saelorn[/MENTION] but everybody that had a complaint had a user name that started with an S and I got confused. That said I was replying to your quotes so while I may have been a bit confused....-As far as fire resistance goes I still think its a specialty of the build. Comparing a Dragon vs an ability unique to a SUB-CLASS of a specific class is not a "good way" to judge a dragon week, under powered, over overrated against an average group of players as Saelorn did. He is basically taking 1 specific character from his group who is good at something and saying that means the dragon is week against the rest of them too. -As far as preparation goes (fire resistance potions for all) if your judging preparations its an endless games of what if and a surprise encounter allows for the simplest debate and most telling encounter because of that. If you want to say you usually experience them with sufficient warning to prepare that fine but that means your not judging the creature based on its strength vs players but its strength vs players preparations. At that point all creatures judged this way will be on "easy mode" so of course CR will seem low as Saelorn was arguing. Which is really the heart of the debate. GMs giving players preparations but not enemies then players and GMs calling the CR/XP system a bad guideline because everything it under powered...But they are not. Players are well prepared making fights feel easier. If they want to test there players give them a surprise attack against the same enemies when they did not have time to prepare.-My post is not perfect, in fact I have spent some time making a revised answer with feed back that I have received and realized regardless of fire resistance the dragon would be better off picking up the warlock and flying strait up doing 3 melee attacks out of reach of the rest of the party. The warlock COULD have misty step and/or fly reducing the effect of this but warlocks only get 14 spells by level 17 and 4 spell slots so using them up makes the fight harder for the warlock to maintain DPR. I also forgot the Dragons Legendary action doing roughly an additional 10 DPR, the fact the warlock would be rolling 1-3 consent ration checks meaning a Drop in the warlocks DPR unless it wants to spend one of its 4 spell slots, and Also, I understated the warlocks HP by at least 8 points depending on the CON modifier. Basically all considered I understated the Dragon.- My point as well as yours was that the Dragons CR is just a base calling it week as Saelorn has done is due to lack of creative play by the GM not because the Dragon is inherently supper week per the CR/XP scale. So I have just poked holes in my post as much as you but the details are not too far off to illustrate the point that we agree on that the Dragon is not so week that using the CR/XP and good tactics by the GM that the Dragon is not a threat... An adult Dragon absolutely is a threat to level 17 players if played well by the GM and we did not even go into line of site or rounding of the XP with a few minions since vs 2 level 17 PCs would leave a little extra XP on a deadly encounter.</blockquote>

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