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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Oofta" data-source="post: 7288360" data-attributes="member: 6801845">What more do you want?  I just ran a game the other day for a group of level 16 PCs and because of time constraints only had a handful of fights (I usually try to do 6-8 encounters between long rests).  Because it was a turning-point in the campaign it was more difficult than usual. I had near TPKs, using a variety of monsters.How did I do it?  Well in one encounter I modified a couple of monsters.  For example I added armor to a T-Rex and gave it extra acid damage (it had demonic ichor), I created a custom orcish leader that had a big boom spell (targeting Con saves) following the rules from the DMG and threw in a bunch of orcish warlords, some of them on top of a cliff where they were difficult to target.The warlords did their "give everyone advantage" and then targeted individuals with ranged attacks and had waves of orcs attack.  In addition I threw several encounters that were "deadly" by the guidelines.The final fight was really straightforward.  A NPC using a Balor's statistics and White Maws that "melted" into the room and filled it up.  They may have been able to deal with this earlier, but by this point they were low on spells and resources.So if you have a problem challenging players I'd just say throw more stuff at them.  Keep doing it until they run out of resources and then throw more.A different group may have been better able to deal with the attacks, but attacking in waves, from multiple directions with multiple types of attacks and damage worked well.  Yes, some high level spells will trash your encounters.  That's why you have to limit long rests.Of course all of this depends on your players as well.  Some people like being challenged (and this last game was more challenging than most), others don't.In addition the advice I've posted before:[SBLOCK]Suggestions:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Use better tactics.  Take advantage of cover and environment.  For example small foes can use small tunnels with tiny openings that are too small for medium size creatures to go through. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Send waves.  At higher levels wizards can do a lot of damage, so don't send all the foes at once.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Flank.  Related to sending in waves, have weaker foes run in from the obvious direction while the real foes come around the back</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Illusion. That BBEG?  Well it's an illusion.  The real BBEG is hiding around the corner.  Note if a target isn't legitimate for a spell, I don't make the caster expend a spell slot.  So if they try to banish the illusion it doesn't work but they also don't use the spell slot.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Number of combats between rests.  It really does help to have 6-8 encounters with only 1-2 short rests.  I use the alternate rules where a short rest is overnight and a long rest is a week or more because it works better for my campaign pacing.  But if you have multiple fights, the wizard is going to hold off on that meteor storm until it's really effective.  We also frequently have multiple game sessions without a long rest - people do need to take notes of where the left off.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Obstacles/goals other than killing stuff.  Too often it's go there kill the bad guy.  What if you have to instead save the prince?  What if your could survive but the prince is squishy?  How do you protect him.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Use custom monsters.  Follow the guide in the DMG to make new monsters, they're frequently much tougher than what's listed in the MM.  Or depending on budget look at 3rd party books like Kobold Press's Tome of Monsters.</li> </ul>Specifically for higher levels, things that I do are (I mix and match the below a lot)<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Monsters have advantage on a regular basis.  I justify it multiple ways, or just secretly roll it.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Do more damage.  Not just more damage, but more types of damage.  Particularly useful for my wife's half-orc character that has resistance to weapon damage.  The BBEG has a sword made of lightning.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Attack more.  Bonus actions or just multiple attacks.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Attacks that do more than damage.  Taking people out of the fight is boring, but restraining them with a giant tentacle that is slowly crushing them?  Go for it.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Transformations.  This one is a little trickier (and to do justice would take more time than I have) but instead of making monsters big bags of HP, have them change at certain points.  At a 2/3 of their HP they lose some AC but start blindly flailing getting more attacks at a bonus.   At 1/3 their HP their acidic/demonic blood is spraying everywhere causing automatic damage (or constitution save for half).  When they die they explode.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Spiritual allies.  Instead of giving a monster minions that can be killed, they send out spiritual allies (inspired by a cleric's spiritual weapon) that can attack as a bonus action</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Counterspell.  This one can be annoying if overused, but give the enemy casters counterspell.  If you really want to be mean, the enemy caster is a sorcerer that can cast without verbal or somatic so their counter can't be countered.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Ranged attacks. Almost all creatures have effective range attacks or can get to people that are flying away.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Different saves.  I make up a lot of monsters.  So sometimes it's going to be strength saves, sometimes it's going to be intelligence and so on.  I don't pick on individuals, but I do try to vary what I'm targeting.</li> </ul>[/SBLOCK]</blockquote>

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