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Message: <blockquote data-quote="WizarDru" data-source="post: 1251181" data-attributes="member: 151">Speaking as a DM who's currently running a party of 21st/22nd level characters through a dungeon (in this case, the palace of the Githyanki Queen), I can assure you that higher level dungeons exist, and can work.  (as if PCs testimony wasn't good enough <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />).  There's been a lot of good advice in the thread.    My quick list: <ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Unnerve your Players: PC is a master of this, as you've seen.  The trick here is to upset their expectations.  These don't have to include threats.  In 'Lich Queen's Beloved' (Dragon 100) there is a room with walls of illithid skin, behind which hundreds of githzerai zombies push, making the walls writhe and moan.  Even though, mechanically, my pcs could easily defeat the threat (and, in fact, walked right past it)...it still was distrubing.  Players who encounter things that they don't understand, regardless of actual threat level, tend to slow down and be more cautious.  </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Challenging Environments:  There is a section in the DMG about environmental hazards.  Study it.  Heat.  Cold.  UNDERWATER.  Heavy winds.  Fog.  You'd be amazed how fast a blizzard can shut a 18th level party down.  High winds can negate those PCs who never stop flying, floating or polymorphing.  Make the players use those less used abilites, or lament not having them ready.  A gust of wind spell isn't terribly exciting...until you wish you had one to dispel the fog.  </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Unique Areas:  Add areas with strange features.  Not necessarily lethal ones...in fact, make them a mix of dangerous and beneficial.  Players tend to not go rushing off into places when they suddenly find themselves faced with strange situations, such as an area where spells have their ranges changed, or there targets shifted 10 feet randomly, and so on.  </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Make it personal:  It's been said that the villains aren't dumb.  This can be true.  And even the lowest flunky can be a threat...when you remember that the friends and allies of the PCs aren't necessarily the bruisers that they are.  Sure, Scorch is a mighty wizard...but his kid sister isn't.  One kidnapping later, and a new level of urgency has been added.  </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Let them get in over their heads: RA is about 3rd edition rules, 1st edition feel.  That means, in true ToEE fashion, the players can take a shortcut to a much more dangerous situation than they anticipated.  Let them burn their fingers once, and keep them honest.  Let them discover a beholder.  The hard way.  Let them escape.  They don't have to know the beholder is trapped...at least not at first.  He could just be an immovable object, for now.  </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Dress up the Usual:  PC's personal speciality is to take the familiar, rub off the serial numbers, change it slightly and reuse it.  One quick glance at the Necropede should show that.  A 'standard' monster, dressed up in different clothes with one or two changes in both ability description and functionality.  Less work for you, more challenge for them.  Remember, the unknown is a powerful ally, paduan.  </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Make them censor themselves:  One of the primary things a spellcaster hates is to not cast spells.  However, one of the other things they hate is to waste spells.  Pit these against each other.  Put simple challenges before them, and let them work it out on their own.  Do I waste the Fly now, to get across the ravine, or use another spell?  Do I hold off fighting the orcs, since they're weak, or do I worry that one might be a polymorphed Displacer Beast?  Disintegrate or Finger of Death or Charm Monster?  What to do, what to do?  </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Don't OVERUSE these:  Don't be arbitrary, and don't prevent your players from using their well-deserved powers.  If they clawed their way up, then they've got a right to be able to open a can.  Let them feel their oats.  But if you let them cocky, it's OK to knock them down a peg.  But unless you want to be seen as an opponent, instead of the guy running the game, you need to use any of these with some restraint.  The idea should be to give them pause, not to harrass them or cause the game to bog down.</li> </ol>That's a few off the top of my head.  If you want more advice, just ask. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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