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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 6457604" data-attributes="member: 2067">I'd imagine the spell list would look quite different. I don't imagine artificers being charmers and tricksters and such as strongly as bards are. I think my issue with that breakdown is twofold.First, I imagine EVERY artificer able to do ALL of those things. You could still do this (a la wizard subclasses - non-diviners can still cast divinations), but there's no reason that an artificer should really have to choose between making a homunculus and making a potion (for instance). It feels like an artificial distinction. Why (in setting-logic) can't I do both? Second, and this is perhaps the more foundational issue: there's no strong narrative distinction between these characters, or between these characters and others. They're all folks who make magic things. Which is also what wizards and clerics and druids do anyway. The difference between the priest who makes potions and golems in Eberron and the artificer who makes potions and golems in Eberron isn't clearly drawn. There's also not a clear difference in the world between the artificer who makes wands and the one who makes potions. Which is part of why it's hard for me to see artificers as a distinct class at the moment. "Wizard with a dash of rogue who makes things" is something you can do in like 5 different ways in the core books at the moment. If the artificer just brings more of that, why does it want a whole new class to do that? Why not just be a wizard with a specific arcane tradition that maybe ups your durability and proficiencies and says that your "prepared spells"  are actually some collection of potions, wands, and trinkets that you use to generate your effects, with your "spellbook" being the formula for making them, and your "component pouch" being the necessary tools and resources? I'm not entirely convinced that an alternate spell list is enough to warrant a new class as much as it is enough to just warrant a different spell list. No reason to invent a bunch of extra class features if the class is basically "basically a bard, but with Transmutation instead of Enchantment." Yeah, still the same fundamental issues as I had with Remathilis's breakdown. Why can't any artificer do all of that? And, more critically, how are the stories of those artificers different?To maybe elaborate on that last point: a Necromancer and an Enchanter are both wizards, but they're very distinct character types, with unique tropes associated with them. You wouldn't mistake one for the other in most cases, but they share a sort of foundational mechanical chassis.The same is true of pretty much any subclass. A Champion and a Battle Master are distinct character types, with distinct associations. A thief and an assassin aren't the same. A druid of the land and a druid of the moon aren't just mechanical variations, they're distinct character types. It's pretty clear that Eberron's artificer is also a distinct character type. It's much less clear to me that a maker of golems and a maker of potions and a maker of magic equipment are distinct character types. You could probably force them apart, but I never got the impression that they were different things in the fiction of Eberron the way that, say, Radagast the Brown and Beast Boy from Teen Titans truck in different archetypes. Just floating around the idea....[sblock]The School of ArtificeYou've studied the art of infusing magic into items. No frail scholar, your training leaves you well acquainted with a wide variety of equipment, and the methods of magic used to increase the equipment's effectiveness...at least for a time.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Infusion: At 2nd level when you become an artificer, you learn how to weave your spells into objects. At the end of a rest, you can infuse any spell you know into an object by spending spell slots. Infusing a spell into an object takes 10 minutes, and consumes a spell slot as if casting the spell. You can even infuse cantrips in this way, though doing that consumes one 1st-level spell slot. When complete, any character holding the infused item can release the spell acting as the spell's caster, but using your spell DC and your spell attack bonus. Infusions fade at the end of the next long rest after they are created, if they are not used. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> On-The-Job Training: You gain proficiency in all simple weapons, medium armor, shields, one skill proficiency of your choice, and proficiency with one kind of artisan's tools. Additionally, whenever you learn a new spell, you may select a spell from the Cleric spell list instead of from the Wizard spell list.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Magic Item Lore: At 6th level, when you discover a magic item, you are prepared for it. You gain advantage on any checks to discern a magic item from a mundane item. Additionally, once you have handled a magic item, you know the prerequisites for attunement for that item (if any). You can attune to an item especially quickly, requiring only 10 minutes to attune. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Shared Magic Item: At 10th level, you can use a magic item to empower an ally. Using your action, you can give an ally within 60 ft. of you the benefits of a magic item you wield for a time. For instance, if you have a +1 Sword, you can use your action to give an ally within 60 ft. of you a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls. This doesn't give you extra uses of an item that is consumable -- if you share your potion of healing, for instance, an ally can heal the HP, but the potion loses its potency after 1 use even if it isn't physically drunk. Similarly, if you shared a bolt of rakshasa slaying with an ally who made an attack against a rakshasa with their own bow, the shared arrow would lose its magic upon they ally's hit. This sharing lasts as long as you concentrate on the effect, and a magic item not consumed in its use can only be shared once per day like this (any additional uses might disrupt the delicate magical weave and dispel the magic on the item). </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Metamagic Item: At 14th level, you can change how a magic item works on the fly. When you activate a magic item, you can apply one of the following alterations to how it functions: Improved Range (if the item creates an effect that has a range of 5 ft. or more, you can double the range, or if the item creates an effect at touch range, you can make the range 30 ft.); Empowered Item (when you roll damage from a magic item's effect, you can re-roll up to 3 of the dice you roll, keeping the new rolls); Extended Duration (if the item has an effect that lasts at least 1 minute, you can double the duration to a maximum of 24 hours); Heightened Effect (if the item has an effect that causes creatures to make a save, you can impose disadvantage on the first save made against the item); or Quickened Activation (if the item takes your action to activate, you can activate it instead as a bonus action). </li> </ul>[/sblock]...or somesuch...</blockquote>

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