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<blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 6465903" data-attributes="member: 7006"><p>Then I'd suggest there probably should be a unique set of rules features for the Artificer that go along with "handing spells off" to other people, the same way the Sorcerer has the metamagic rules working alongside their spell list, and Warlock has the invocation rules working alongside their spell list.</p><p></p><p>It seems like this is what KM is advocating-- a conceptually "new" set of features the Artificer class would have that runs alongside their spell list. Infusions would probably be that set of features... but I presume he'd want to see the Infusion feature set to be a new set of rules outside of what we already have in the Wizard, Warlock and Sorcerer. If the Artificer has its spell list, and it has a rules system for Infusions that not only allows the "handing off" of spell effects to other players (via temporary magic items), but also does something new (perhaps creating completely new effects outside the existing spells)... that's probably what KM would need to see to warrant the Artificer having its own class.</p><p></p><p>And I'd tend to agree with that. If there's a new set of <strong>game mechanics</strong> to be introduced that doesn't duplicate any existing class's game mechanics... that's potential "new class" territory. But if the concepts to be introduced can pretty much be replicated by an existing class's mechanics and it's only the outer shell of story and fluff of how they look in the game world that is different... then that's sub-class territory.</p><p></p><p>After all... if you can go so far as to give a Fighter <em>spellcasting</em> and *still* have it be considered a "sub-class"... the Sub-class System is much wider and more open for new concepts than we might give credit for.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DEFCON 1, post: 6465903, member: 7006"] Then I'd suggest there probably should be a unique set of rules features for the Artificer that go along with "handing spells off" to other people, the same way the Sorcerer has the metamagic rules working alongside their spell list, and Warlock has the invocation rules working alongside their spell list. It seems like this is what KM is advocating-- a conceptually "new" set of features the Artificer class would have that runs alongside their spell list. Infusions would probably be that set of features... but I presume he'd want to see the Infusion feature set to be a new set of rules outside of what we already have in the Wizard, Warlock and Sorcerer. If the Artificer has its spell list, and it has a rules system for Infusions that not only allows the "handing off" of spell effects to other players (via temporary magic items), but also does something new (perhaps creating completely new effects outside the existing spells)... that's probably what KM would need to see to warrant the Artificer having its own class. And I'd tend to agree with that. If there's a new set of [B]game mechanics[/B] to be introduced that doesn't duplicate any existing class's game mechanics... that's potential "new class" territory. But if the concepts to be introduced can pretty much be replicated by an existing class's mechanics and it's only the outer shell of story and fluff of how they look in the game world that is different... then that's sub-class territory. After all... if you can go so far as to give a Fighter [i]spellcasting[/i] and *still* have it be considered a "sub-class"... the Sub-class System is much wider and more open for new concepts than we might give credit for. [/QUOTE]
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