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Running from the Sunless Citadel to the Bastion of Broken Souls
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<blockquote data-quote="WizarDru" data-source="post: 1104712" data-attributes="member: 151"><p>Well, you can check my .sig below for a link to Wulf's Story Hour, which goes straight through to Lord of the Iron Fortress (and may have continued on to Bastion after Wulf left). My Story Hour, also listed below, used the first two modules, and then snippets of the others until Heart of Nightfang Spire.</p><p></p><p>You need to consider the following questions:</p><p></p><p><strong>Do you and your players like Dungeon Crawls? Really, really like them?</strong> Because if you don't, you may want to change your plans. Sunless Citadel is good old-school dungeoneering, and a solid module. Forge of Fury is even better in that mold, and really a series of connected dungeons, each with their own character. But then comes a dungeon module that really takes place in a city, and then one that takes place over a small countryside, and then the Hell of Nightfang Spire, which becomes a relentless Bataan Death March of a module. Follow that up with Deep Horizon, which is a dungeon in the underdark. Then Lord of the Iron Fortress, which is a dungeon on another plane. Then finally, Bastion of Broken Souls, which is a dungeon spread out across four different planes.</p><p></p><p>I'm simplfying here, naturally...but ultimately, they start to feel very repetitive. My players grew bored with Nightfang Spire before they grew angry at it.</p><p></p><p><strong>How do you handle PC death?</strong> Your attitude and your player's attitudes towards character death will determine your enjoyment of these modules. Particularly as the modules scale higher, instant death save-or-die issues will abound. Creatures like the Iron Fortresses Steel Predators, who theoretically can sunder +4 weapons, and are very good at it. Monsters like Nightfang Spire's Tombstone Golem, who essentially has a Slay Living attack instead of Slow gas. Creatures like the Cathezar in Bastion, who can deliver 27 attacks per round if in her lair....and it only takes 3 or 4 to kill most party members. Party members WILL die, and in record numbers if their compliment doesn't match the module designer's intent. Nightfang Spire becomes much harder without a competent cleric. And with a wight assassain who can scry the players for three turns before performing her death attack by walking through a portal, you're still going to lose people. Be preprapred for that.</p><p></p><p><strong>Are you prepared to rewrite some of the modules?</strong> Some of them are obtuse or frustrating, and intentionally short-circuit logical resolutions to problems purely for the sake of prolonging the adventure. The Standing Stones is a prime example of this, with several poorly constructed Mcguffins that most players will quickly see through, and some truck-sized plot holes you'll need to patch. Switching to 3.5 will also entail some rebalancing of the modules. The heavily-used Girallons in Heart of Nightfang Spire are CR6, now, and somewhat tweaked to be slightly weaker...this means that they are simultaneously worth more, and differently abled (they were overpowered before for CR 5, they are now good for CR6, but do less damage in favor of other stats).</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>My advice? </strong>Use the first two modules, and then take the players to the Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil module. The first section in Hommlet is outstanding, and if they really want a big dungeon crawl with some lethality, you can at least give them a well written one. The Banewarrens is another good alternate choice. I've never used them, but many people swear by the Freeport series of modules, as well. I enjoy many of the modules from Fiery Dragon Press, to be sure, and Kenzer produces some mighty fine modules for the Kalamar setting, such as the Coin trilogy.</p><p></p><p>If you want to see more specific criticism, go to my story hour, and scroll through to find the discussion about HoNS...it's probably on page 2 (since the last culling of messages, I'm unsure).</p><p><em>Edit: AH, here it is, <a href="http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=78025#post78025" target="_blank">right here</a>.</em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="WizarDru, post: 1104712, member: 151"] Well, you can check my .sig below for a link to Wulf's Story Hour, which goes straight through to Lord of the Iron Fortress (and may have continued on to Bastion after Wulf left). My Story Hour, also listed below, used the first two modules, and then snippets of the others until Heart of Nightfang Spire. You need to consider the following questions: [b]Do you and your players like Dungeon Crawls? Really, really like them?[/b] Because if you don't, you may want to change your plans. Sunless Citadel is good old-school dungeoneering, and a solid module. Forge of Fury is even better in that mold, and really a series of connected dungeons, each with their own character. But then comes a dungeon module that really takes place in a city, and then one that takes place over a small countryside, and then the Hell of Nightfang Spire, which becomes a relentless Bataan Death March of a module. Follow that up with Deep Horizon, which is a dungeon in the underdark. Then Lord of the Iron Fortress, which is a dungeon on another plane. Then finally, Bastion of Broken Souls, which is a dungeon spread out across four different planes. I'm simplfying here, naturally...but ultimately, they start to feel very repetitive. My players grew bored with Nightfang Spire before they grew angry at it. [b]How do you handle PC death?[/b] Your attitude and your player's attitudes towards character death will determine your enjoyment of these modules. Particularly as the modules scale higher, instant death save-or-die issues will abound. Creatures like the Iron Fortresses Steel Predators, who theoretically can sunder +4 weapons, and are very good at it. Monsters like Nightfang Spire's Tombstone Golem, who essentially has a Slay Living attack instead of Slow gas. Creatures like the Cathezar in Bastion, who can deliver 27 attacks per round if in her lair....and it only takes 3 or 4 to kill most party members. Party members WILL die, and in record numbers if their compliment doesn't match the module designer's intent. Nightfang Spire becomes much harder without a competent cleric. And with a wight assassain who can scry the players for three turns before performing her death attack by walking through a portal, you're still going to lose people. Be preprapred for that. [b]Are you prepared to rewrite some of the modules?[/b] Some of them are obtuse or frustrating, and intentionally short-circuit logical resolutions to problems purely for the sake of prolonging the adventure. The Standing Stones is a prime example of this, with several poorly constructed Mcguffins that most players will quickly see through, and some truck-sized plot holes you'll need to patch. Switching to 3.5 will also entail some rebalancing of the modules. The heavily-used Girallons in Heart of Nightfang Spire are CR6, now, and somewhat tweaked to be slightly weaker...this means that they are simultaneously worth more, and differently abled (they were overpowered before for CR 5, they are now good for CR6, but do less damage in favor of other stats). [b]My advice? [/b]Use the first two modules, and then take the players to the Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil module. The first section in Hommlet is outstanding, and if they really want a big dungeon crawl with some lethality, you can at least give them a well written one. The Banewarrens is another good alternate choice. I've never used them, but many people swear by the Freeport series of modules, as well. I enjoy many of the modules from Fiery Dragon Press, to be sure, and Kenzer produces some mighty fine modules for the Kalamar setting, such as the Coin trilogy. If you want to see more specific criticism, go to my story hour, and scroll through to find the discussion about HoNS...it's probably on page 2 (since the last culling of messages, I'm unsure). [i]Edit: AH, here it is, [url="http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=78025#post78025"]right here[/url].[/i] [/QUOTE]
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