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Message: <blockquote data-quote="touc" data-source="post: 7960090" data-attributes="member: 19270">Two ideas here from a DM of 20+ years with a comparison to AD&D.First, high level play is rare, assuming you work your way up. In countless campaigns from AD&D, 3rd, Pathfinder, and 5E, I've only had 3 make it to 18+. There's attrition, real life disruptions, people getting married, having kids, and fatigue even with the best you've got. It's not that I don't want to.Second, 5E high level characters are insane (IF they get magic items, which unless you're a jerk you're handing out). In Out of the Abyss, I ran it to 14th level. As written, the party would've mopped the floor with Demogorgon, even full power. That's not right. So, I simply buffed demon lords to what they should be (e.g. max hit points, spell-like powers they used to have before switching editions, immunity non-magical attacks, resistance to any weapon less than +3 or another demon lord). I think we suffer from a lack of well-written high level material to give us some guidance, from play-tested material, as to what offers a challenge in this edition. Consequently, some DMs may be frustrated when PCs mow through what was promised as a challenging foe.I had 2 AD&D groups make it 1st to 20th level (probably took 2 years apiece). AD&D was by no means perfect, but it had a plus in that it capped players by around level 9 as to hit points and abilities (we're going to ignore the wizard, which became a god). This concept of capping characters was popular enough to spawn a 3rd edition project called "Epic 6," which stopped the linear advancement at 6th level but had characters get more Feats and such after that. (See also the fun <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/was-gandalf-just-a-5th-level-magic-user.663672/" target="_blank">"Gandalf was only a 5th level magic user" </a>article from 1977). So, there's a notion that capped play, whether it be all abilities or even hit points, helps with longevity of games. Dunno, maybe I just gave out too much XP in AD&D...</blockquote>

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