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<blockquote data-quote="Wulf Ratbane" data-source="post: 2235761" data-attributes="member: 94"><p>I don't mind at all. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It would have to be pretty significant generalship... But remember that a difference of just 2 BR is essentially a force <em>twice</em> as powerful as the first. It's already possible to punch well outside your weight class with just a few good rolls. </p><p></p><p>Let's review:</p><p></p><p>a) a difference of 2 in BR is, technically, a force twice as powerful (or twice as numerous). Don't lose sight of that. The odds of a 1st level warrior winning out over two 1st level enemies is about the same as 100 1st level warriors winning out over 200 1st level enemies. </p><p></p><p>If my warrior wins initiative, strikes, hits, and kills one foe; and on your turn your remaining warrior misses; and on my turn my warrior strikes, hits, and kills again... He's bucked 2-to-1 odds on the turn of just a couple of d20 rolls!</p><p></p><p>b) As you read and absorb the rules, remember that even as small as a +2 bonus to your Battle Check is a significant bonus.</p><p></p><p>c) From the unit level, up the chain of command, if your commander has a higher Command bonus than you, you get a +1 synergy bonus to your own Command check. (This encourages the promotion of skilled commanders up the chain of command...) </p><p></p><p>This is about as direct an involvement as a "general" is going to have over unit-level Command checks. (But I don't think you should sell short the initiative bonus.) </p><p></p><p>And this makes sense. The general is going to have a greater influence over the strategic level than the tactical level. (It's your sergeants and lieutenants who must carry the tactical level.)</p><p></p><p>d) You can get further bonuses to Command checks based on the magnitude of control you have over the battleground (Controlled, Fortified, etc.) </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Everything is interrelated. The ground type determines the strategic objectives you can shoot for. The strategic objectives determine your casualty rate. That casualty rate is not important if you're just "playtesting" a single battle. It makes a big difference in a long term, strategic campaign.</p><p></p><p>Obviously, if you're taking the GTMC rules and just playing one battle, you're not going to see this level of depth. You probably won't have a strategic objective, and you probably won't care if (for example) in a "Divide the Enemy Forces" action, the attacker loses 100% of his casualties in the effort, while the defender loses only 25%. To extend it, you probably also don't care that you can't even attempt "Divide" on certain types of ground.</p><p></p><p>The general's job is to strategically outmaneuver his opponent into ground that favors his army. Most specifically, if you choose the Outmaneuver Strategic Objective (for example), a Command check post-battle will determine your success in moving the enemy army into more favorable ground. This is a very important Command check for the general.</p><p></p><p>The most notable type of ground is Difficult Ground. Difficult Ground imposes Command check penalties on movement and formation (which we will discuss below). A general with superior Command but an inferior force is obviously going to want to force his enemy into Difficult Ground.</p><p></p><p>Notice that there other strategic objectives where the higher Command check carries the day.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I see this complaint all the time and can only assume that folks aren't reading the rules.</p><p></p><p><strong>There are four types of formation:</strong></p><p></p><p>Tight-- phalanxes fall into this category. It is restricted to units that are trained to fight in phalanx formation. These rules ARE included; perhaps I didn't organize them as well as I should have. Phalanxes receive a +2 bonus against more numerous opponents (but they suffer against massed range attacks or area of effect attacks).</p><p></p><p>Close-- the standard "side by side" formation. </p><p></p><p>Open-- the formation is starting to break apart.</p><p></p><p>Dispersed-- the counterpart to the phalanx, this is a restricted formation reserved for units trained to fight this way (ie, skirmishers). Skirmishers get a +2 bonus against ranged attacks and area of effect attacks (but they suffer in melee).</p><p></p><p><strong>Once the battle is joined, Command checks start to come into play.</strong></p><p></p><p>a) When you are in Close formation, there is not room for the enemy to "penetrate" your ranks and bring more of their combatants to bear. </p><p></p><p>b) When you are in Open formation, there IS room for the enemy to "penetrate" your ranks and gain a bonus to their Battle Check (which is, essentially, an attack roll).</p><p></p><p>c) When your unit is in Close formation, if you Attack, Run, or Charge, you must make a Command check to HOLD FORMATION.</p><p></p><p>This is the first place where Command checks really make a difference. You do not want your unit to drop from Close formation into Open formation because you will be giving your opponent a bonus in combat. If both units have dropped to Open formation, the bonus is a wash; but if you can hold Close formation, you have an edge. </p><p></p><p>You must also make a Command check to Run (at all); you must make a Command check to Change Formation; and you must make a Command check to form a detachment (splitting your one BR20 unit into two BR18 units, for example).</p><p></p><p>And finally-- of course-- you must make a Command check for Morale at 50% casualties and again at 75% casualties. The consequences of a failed Command check here is that your units are likely to Hold (do nothing) or Retreat (run away).</p><p></p><p><strong>So to sort of sum up the layers of what's going on:</strong></p><p></p><p>a) a superior general will grant a synergy bonus to his officers' Command checks;</p><p></p><p>b) the officers' Command checks will influence the success of their units (by holding formation, moving, re-forming, and Morale)</p><p></p><p>c) the general chooses the strategic objective</p><p></p><p>d) the general's Command check determines Initiative at the start of the battle (it's always nice for your archers to fire first...)</p><p></p><p>e) the success of the battle equates to the success of the victor's strategic objective, which forces the opponent into favorable conditions <em>for the next battle</em> (again, if you only play one battle, you won't see this)</p><p></p><p>f) the strategic objective chosen determines the recovery of casualties for the current battle (again, if you only play one battle, you won't see this, but some "desperate" strategic objectives correlate to a very high rate of attrition for your army)</p><p></p><p>g) the general's Command check determines the magnitude of success of certain strategic objectives</p><p></p><p>Again, I don't mind tinkering-- my 'minimalist' design style encourages it-- but I do encourage folks to read, absorb, and try the entire design I have provided before knocking it too harshly. </p><p></p><p>Wulf</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Wulf Ratbane, post: 2235761, member: 94"] I don't mind at all. It would have to be pretty significant generalship... But remember that a difference of just 2 BR is essentially a force [i]twice[/i] as powerful as the first. It's already possible to punch well outside your weight class with just a few good rolls. Let's review: a) a difference of 2 in BR is, technically, a force twice as powerful (or twice as numerous). Don't lose sight of that. The odds of a 1st level warrior winning out over two 1st level enemies is about the same as 100 1st level warriors winning out over 200 1st level enemies. If my warrior wins initiative, strikes, hits, and kills one foe; and on your turn your remaining warrior misses; and on my turn my warrior strikes, hits, and kills again... He's bucked 2-to-1 odds on the turn of just a couple of d20 rolls! b) As you read and absorb the rules, remember that even as small as a +2 bonus to your Battle Check is a significant bonus. c) From the unit level, up the chain of command, if your commander has a higher Command bonus than you, you get a +1 synergy bonus to your own Command check. (This encourages the promotion of skilled commanders up the chain of command...) This is about as direct an involvement as a "general" is going to have over unit-level Command checks. (But I don't think you should sell short the initiative bonus.) And this makes sense. The general is going to have a greater influence over the strategic level than the tactical level. (It's your sergeants and lieutenants who must carry the tactical level.) d) You can get further bonuses to Command checks based on the magnitude of control you have over the battleground (Controlled, Fortified, etc.) Everything is interrelated. The ground type determines the strategic objectives you can shoot for. The strategic objectives determine your casualty rate. That casualty rate is not important if you're just "playtesting" a single battle. It makes a big difference in a long term, strategic campaign. Obviously, if you're taking the GTMC rules and just playing one battle, you're not going to see this level of depth. You probably won't have a strategic objective, and you probably won't care if (for example) in a "Divide the Enemy Forces" action, the attacker loses 100% of his casualties in the effort, while the defender loses only 25%. To extend it, you probably also don't care that you can't even attempt "Divide" on certain types of ground. The general's job is to strategically outmaneuver his opponent into ground that favors his army. Most specifically, if you choose the Outmaneuver Strategic Objective (for example), a Command check post-battle will determine your success in moving the enemy army into more favorable ground. This is a very important Command check for the general. The most notable type of ground is Difficult Ground. Difficult Ground imposes Command check penalties on movement and formation (which we will discuss below). A general with superior Command but an inferior force is obviously going to want to force his enemy into Difficult Ground. Notice that there other strategic objectives where the higher Command check carries the day. I see this complaint all the time and can only assume that folks aren't reading the rules. [b]There are four types of formation:[/b] Tight-- phalanxes fall into this category. It is restricted to units that are trained to fight in phalanx formation. These rules ARE included; perhaps I didn't organize them as well as I should have. Phalanxes receive a +2 bonus against more numerous opponents (but they suffer against massed range attacks or area of effect attacks). Close-- the standard "side by side" formation. Open-- the formation is starting to break apart. Dispersed-- the counterpart to the phalanx, this is a restricted formation reserved for units trained to fight this way (ie, skirmishers). Skirmishers get a +2 bonus against ranged attacks and area of effect attacks (but they suffer in melee). [b]Once the battle is joined, Command checks start to come into play.[/b] a) When you are in Close formation, there is not room for the enemy to "penetrate" your ranks and bring more of their combatants to bear. b) When you are in Open formation, there IS room for the enemy to "penetrate" your ranks and gain a bonus to their Battle Check (which is, essentially, an attack roll). c) When your unit is in Close formation, if you Attack, Run, or Charge, you must make a Command check to HOLD FORMATION. This is the first place where Command checks really make a difference. You do not want your unit to drop from Close formation into Open formation because you will be giving your opponent a bonus in combat. If both units have dropped to Open formation, the bonus is a wash; but if you can hold Close formation, you have an edge. You must also make a Command check to Run (at all); you must make a Command check to Change Formation; and you must make a Command check to form a detachment (splitting your one BR20 unit into two BR18 units, for example). And finally-- of course-- you must make a Command check for Morale at 50% casualties and again at 75% casualties. The consequences of a failed Command check here is that your units are likely to Hold (do nothing) or Retreat (run away). [b]So to sort of sum up the layers of what's going on:[/b] a) a superior general will grant a synergy bonus to his officers' Command checks; b) the officers' Command checks will influence the success of their units (by holding formation, moving, re-forming, and Morale) c) the general chooses the strategic objective d) the general's Command check determines Initiative at the start of the battle (it's always nice for your archers to fire first...) e) the success of the battle equates to the success of the victor's strategic objective, which forces the opponent into favorable conditions [i]for the next battle[/i] (again, if you only play one battle, you won't see this) f) the strategic objective chosen determines the recovery of casualties for the current battle (again, if you only play one battle, you won't see this, but some "desperate" strategic objectives correlate to a very high rate of attrition for your army) g) the general's Command check determines the magnitude of success of certain strategic objectives Again, I don't mind tinkering-- my 'minimalist' design style encourages it-- but I do encourage folks to read, absorb, and try the entire design I have provided before knocking it too harshly. Wulf [/QUOTE]
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