Pathfinder 1E Running Pathfinder beyond the Beginner Box

[nnms]

A bit of history:

I've played a lot of RPGs, but got super frustrated with 3.x. The sheer amount of work to GM it, combined with play falling apart from spells, gigantic monster stat blocks, etc., really made me hate it. A lot.

I enjoy running the Pathfinder Beginner Box. I've had lots of different players when I've run miniseries and one shots and I keep getting asked to run the full game in a campaign.

Can I run it and:

1) Let the players take care of choosing their character options without a constant worry that things will suddenly implode or that one character will be vastly better than another because of the person being better at the character creation and advancement mini-game?

2) Not be bogged down with horrible amounts of prep? What do I need to keep in mind related to this?

3) Not be bogged down in play with rules look ups? What do I need to keep in mind related to this?

4) Have the non-caster players feel like they are contributing just as much as the casters?

I know Golarion pretty well. I've run campaigns in it using 4E, Mini Six, and Strands of Fate. So I'm at home there. I ran Rise of the Rune Lords in its entirety using Mini Six, for example. I actually already have about 20 or so Pathfinder Chronicles and Adventure Path books I use for other systems.

 

[Derfmancher]

1) Let the players take care of choosing their character options without a constant worry that things will suddenly implode or that one character will be vastly better than another because of the person being better at the character creation and advancement mini-game?

Each class is better at some things than others. The key in my experience is to use a variety of enemies in each encounter, some to each characters strength. On their own, and out of the gate it is very difficult for them to "break" the game.

2) Not be bogged down with horrible amounts of prep? What do I need to keep in mind related to this?

Preparation is what you want it to be. I just handed over running a weekly PF game, and he and I talked about this. I would draw each dungeon and decide the creatures and loot in advance, he would do it on the fly. By comparison he creates the story in advance, and I use the players actions on the fly. Basically, do what makes you happy and you are comforted.

3) Not be bogged down in play with rules look ups? What do I need to keep in mind related to this?

Have each player learn their own class before playing it. And then you need to learn it as well. Have any wizards play a unilateralist before another type, and be firm on any house rules about classes that you make. For instance I ran an adventure without gunpowder, and one of my players really loved playing a gunslinger. He had to choose something else or risk always being out of ammo

4) Have the non-caster players feel like they are contributing just as much as the casters?

They need to know what they want to be when they start out. Sword and board? Make sure to take the right feats. Rouge TWF? Make sure they get their sneak attack damage. Another way to do this is to have some enemies that are immune to magic, or elemental types that the casters favor using.

 

[IronWolf]

1) Let the players take care of choosing their character options without a constant worry that things will suddenly implode or that one character will be vastly better than another because of the person being better at the character creation and advancement mini-game?

Stick with Paizo Pathfinder materials. If you are concerned with rule and option inundation I would consider just using the core rulebook and probably the APG. I really enjoyed my Pathfinder time with just those two books as resources.

The Ultimate books while cool, just sort of drift into too many option for me.

2) Not be bogged down with horrible amounts of prep? What do I need to keep in mind related to this?

I have never found 3.x or Pathfinder to be that horrible to prep for. I suspect this is because I don't feel the need to stat out every single NPC that the group is likely to meet as all encounters do not end up in combat, so the stats just aren't needed.

Some GMs need a lot of prep to feel comfortable, others can take a quick glance at a module or make a few notes and be ready to run. Finding your balance is important.

3) Not be bogged down in play with rules look ups? What do I need to keep in mind related to this?

Pathfinder simplified some of the things with CMB/CMD to help at least provide a consistent mechanic. That helped a fair amount - that and using channel energy instead of turning rules.

In our group, if I am not 100% on a rule, just make something up or go with what feels right. We almost never spend longer than a minute tops looking up a rule in our group. Make a decision that seems fair and move on. Once the session is over, go back, study the rules and then let everyone know how that situation would be played in the future.

Works well for us and keeps rule lookups from slowing down the game.

4) Have the non-caster players feel like they are contributing just as much as the casters?

When I ran Kingmaker we had a wizard, druid, fighter, and paladin. The fighter and paladin were everybit as useful as the wizard or druid. It was never really a problem in our group.

 

[nnms]

They need to know what they want to be when they start out. Sword and board? Make sure to take the right feats. Rogue TWF? Make sure they get their sneak attack damage. Another way to do this is to have some enemies that are immune to magic, or elemental types that the casters favor using.

I was thinking of being very generous with retraining as well. One thing I hated about 3E was that if you didn't know feats and prestige class prerequisites backwards and forwards, you could end up not being able to make what you wanted just because you made your decisions in the moment.

Stick with Paizo Pathfinder materials. If you are concerned with rule and option inundation I would consider just using the core rulebook and probably the APG. I really enjoyed my Pathfinder time with just those two books as resources.

The Ultimate books while cool, just sort of drift into too many option for me.

I've been looking at d20pfsrd.com - Nothing sourced from the Ultimate books looks problematic at first look. Is it an issue with combinations that are not immediately obvious?

I'm a big fan of the Grand Duchy of Alkenstar, so I really like the gunslinger class.

I have never found 3.x or Pathfinder to be that horrible to prep for. I suspect this is because I don't feel the need to stat out every single NPC that the group is likely to meet as all encounters do not end up in combat, so the stats just aren't needed.

I remember in being a huge pain back when I played 3.0 around 2002. I don't recall spending a lot of time on statting up NPCs, but on preparing notes for monsters with spells or spell like abilities that need referencing when they're used.

I never used modules with 3E though. I imagine the Adventure Path modules should save me a good amount of time.

Pathfinder simplified some of the things with CMB/CMD to help at least provide a consistent mechanic. That helped a fair amount - that and using channel energy instead of turning rules.

I'm actually really impressed with the CMB/CMD thing.

When I ran Kingmaker we had a wizard, druid, fighter, and paladin. The fighter and paladin were everybit as useful as the wizard or druid. It was never really a problem in our group.

Good to hear. I remember playing 3.0 and once we hit sixth level or so, my mage just dominated everything and it just got worse and worse as we kept playing.

 

[IronWolf]

I was thinking of being very generous with retraining as well. One thing I hated about 3E was that if you didn't know feats and prestige class prerequisites backwards and forwards, you could end up not being able to make what you wanted just because you made your decisions in the moment.

Retraining is a great way to keep someone from working themselves into a corner due to a poor choice.

I've been looking at d20pfsrd.com - Nothing sourced from the Ultimate books looks problematic at first look. Is it an issue with combinations that are not immediately obvious?

To me it is more option overload. I found playing more enjoyable with just the core and APG.

I never used modules with 3E though. I imagine the Adventure Path modules should save me a good amount of time.

Yeah - I tended to prep the APs by going through, making a few notes and ready to go.

I'm actually really impressed with the CMB/CMD thing.

Yeah - I think it worked well to simplify a few things to one mechanic.

Good to hear. I remember playing 3.0 and once we hit sixth level or so, my mage just dominated everything and it just got worse and worse as we kept playing.

Magic is still powerful and wizards can still do cool things. But the fighter and paladin our group did well even with a wizard and druid in the group. I don't think they felt like they were second fiddle at all.

 

[nnms]

Retraining is a great way to keep someone from working themselves into a corner due to a poor choice.

I'll make sure to let my players know that lots of retraining will be available.

To me it is more option overload. I found playing more enjoyable with just the core and APG.

It's certainly option heavy compared to the Basic D&D game I play in. But not so much compared to 4E that I ran for a few years. I think I'll be okay allowing core + apg + ults.

Yeah - I tended to prep the APs by going through, making a few notes and ready to go.

I ran through RotRL converting everything over to Mini Six and that didn't take too long, so its probably going to be fine. I've been doing homebrew stuff with the Beginner Box though.

Magic is still powerful and wizards can still do cool things. But the fighter and paladin our group did well even with a wizard and druid in the group. I don't think they felt like they were second fiddle at all.

I found 3E to be intolerable in this regard. I heard they fixed quite a bit of the issue with mages buffing in 3.5, but all it really did was transfer the title of dominating class to clerics (and to a lesser extent, druids). Tons of threads have been about this issue and I was wondering what the state of affairs are for PF once you use the full game and not just the beginner box to level 5.

EDIT:

Anyone have anything to say (or links to other discussions) about slow, medium and fast advancment?

EDIT 2:

I found this 9 page thread about slow advancement
http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/285282-slow-advancement-rocks.html

EDIT 3:

Ugh. That thread totally degenerated into a discussion about what the word "campaign" means and then later into a misunderstanding about traditional narrative structure. Time to get searching again.