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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Running player commentary on PCat's 4E Campaign - Heroic tier (finished)
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5389580" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Well, 1e had the old Assassin class with its instant kill mechanic, but as someone pointed out above that kind of mechanic has serious issues and it is notable that it was one of the biggest things 2e simply excised from the game.</p><p></p><p>Perhaps ironically 4e has the skill challenge system that provides a good structure for the action surrounding the kill attempt, but obviously doesn't have an explicit instant kill mechanic that is really always suitable. </p><p></p><p>I'd say in a lot of cases you probably CAN handle the target as a minion, but there are going to be cases where that doesn't make too much sense. </p><p></p><p>The analogy with Assassin's Creed is a good one. Obviously a game where the mechanics are pretty well set up for this kind of thing specifically. Still, slipping around in a crowd and all of that kind of stuff in AC is VERY much reminiscent of an SC and even has a pretty incremental sort of success/fail feel to it (you can for instance slip into a hiding spot or mingle with a crowd when guards start to get suspicious of you, which is very much like hitting a fail or two on an SC or just needing a number of successes).</p><p></p><p>I think an SC is a robust enough set of mechanics for this. The challenge can involve a whole set of skills, streetwise/bluff/intimidate/diplomacy to gather information and/or slip past guards or into a secure area, athletics/acrobatics to climb, move, jump, etc into position and to make the actual kill. Depending on the DM's needs other skills could be involved as well or the entire scenario could involve more than one SC. With the proper level of difficulty and interesting success/fail mechanics it should be both sufficiently challenging and be able to engage the whole party (or suitable for a solo character, etc).</p><p></p><p>The only hurdle that really exists is in the minds of the players. If they aren't bothered by skirting the usual combat mechanics then it should be perfectly fine. While it is possible the players might see this kind of thing as an easy way to get around actually confronting a difficult opponent I don't think this is really a huge problem. Either the DM can make it no easier than an outright fight or only marginally easier, or the opportunity may just not present itself at all if it doesn't fit in with the plot. A highly defended, powerful, and suspicious BBEG simply can't be done for this way, or it could require too much time, etc.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 5389580, member: 82106"] Well, 1e had the old Assassin class with its instant kill mechanic, but as someone pointed out above that kind of mechanic has serious issues and it is notable that it was one of the biggest things 2e simply excised from the game. Perhaps ironically 4e has the skill challenge system that provides a good structure for the action surrounding the kill attempt, but obviously doesn't have an explicit instant kill mechanic that is really always suitable. I'd say in a lot of cases you probably CAN handle the target as a minion, but there are going to be cases where that doesn't make too much sense. The analogy with Assassin's Creed is a good one. Obviously a game where the mechanics are pretty well set up for this kind of thing specifically. Still, slipping around in a crowd and all of that kind of stuff in AC is VERY much reminiscent of an SC and even has a pretty incremental sort of success/fail feel to it (you can for instance slip into a hiding spot or mingle with a crowd when guards start to get suspicious of you, which is very much like hitting a fail or two on an SC or just needing a number of successes). I think an SC is a robust enough set of mechanics for this. The challenge can involve a whole set of skills, streetwise/bluff/intimidate/diplomacy to gather information and/or slip past guards or into a secure area, athletics/acrobatics to climb, move, jump, etc into position and to make the actual kill. Depending on the DM's needs other skills could be involved as well or the entire scenario could involve more than one SC. With the proper level of difficulty and interesting success/fail mechanics it should be both sufficiently challenging and be able to engage the whole party (or suitable for a solo character, etc). The only hurdle that really exists is in the minds of the players. If they aren't bothered by skirting the usual combat mechanics then it should be perfectly fine. While it is possible the players might see this kind of thing as an easy way to get around actually confronting a difficult opponent I don't think this is really a huge problem. Either the DM can make it no easier than an outright fight or only marginally easier, or the opportunity may just not present itself at all if it doesn't fit in with the plot. A highly defended, powerful, and suspicious BBEG simply can't be done for this way, or it could require too much time, etc. [/QUOTE]
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