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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 3881989" data-attributes="member: 4937">If I understand right, the point is that he is using the adaptation.To be perfectly frank, I think its a pretty crumby adaptation.&nbsp; It doesn't in any way capture the spirit of the original.&nbsp; In the original, most of the tomb was accessible to a clever 1st level character.&nbsp; The Tomb was mostly a test of player problem solving ability and of a player's ability to both be cautious and act desively in a crisis, and not the character's abilities.&nbsp; The monsters in the original were fairly weak and for the most part easily dispatched.&nbsp; In the adaptation, based on play experience, the worst horrors appear to be the monsters.In the original, with a good group of players, you couldn't expect to catch them in any but the first few traps.&nbsp; As soon as a good group of players figured out that this was a different sort of adventure than they were used to, they'd adapt.&nbsp;&nbsp; You are supposed to realize that you are under no time pressure at all and act appropriately.&nbsp; For example, we started out searching for traps in every square.&nbsp; The first time my 12th level thief failed his find trap roll and ended up in a pit, we altered our search procedure so that it didn't depend on a die roll.&nbsp; Effectively, that's what your player's have done too, but the point is, &quot;I take 20.&quot; is a lot less interesting of a solution to finding pit traps and a lot less demanding on the player's imagination than, &quot;I fill a couple large sacks with dirt, tie a ropes to them, and have the barbarian and the fighter throw them ahead of us.&quot; or, &quot;I quaff a potion of flying, and then gingerly put my weight on the floor to see if it gives beneath me.&quot;, or, &quot;I summon some medium sized animals to walk ahead of us.&quot; or whatever your favorite solution is.Creative solutions like that involving rope and 10' poles and normally unused utility spells is what 'Tomb of Horrors' is all about.&nbsp; If you don't experience that, you really haven't experienced the module IMO.&nbsp; And the adaptation is a pretty horrible recreation of the experience of the module.You are correct to assert that the problem is with the 'take 20' and the abstract search method.&nbsp; Exactly what should be done about that is a matter of opinion.&nbsp; There are some here who will argue that the way you see things playing out is exactly how they should play out, and that adventures are meant to be tests of character ability and not player ability.&nbsp; I think they are robbing themselves of alot of fun.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 3881989, member: 4937"] If I understand right, the point is that he is using the adaptation. To be perfectly frank, I think its a pretty crumby adaptation. It doesn't in any way capture the spirit of the original. In the original, most of the tomb was accessible to a clever 1st level character. The Tomb was mostly a test of player problem solving ability and of a player's ability to both be cautious and act desively in a crisis, and not the character's abilities. The monsters in the original were fairly weak and for the most part easily dispatched. In the adaptation, based on play experience, the worst horrors appear to be the monsters. In the original, with a good group of players, you couldn't expect to catch them in any but the first few traps. As soon as a good group of players figured out that this was a different sort of adventure than they were used to, they'd adapt. You are supposed to realize that you are under no time pressure at all and act appropriately. For example, we started out searching for traps in every square. The first time my 12th level thief failed his find trap roll and ended up in a pit, we altered our search procedure so that it didn't depend on a die roll. Effectively, that's what your player's have done too, but the point is, "I take 20." is a lot less interesting of a solution to finding pit traps and a lot less demanding on the player's imagination than, "I fill a couple large sacks with dirt, tie a ropes to them, and have the barbarian and the fighter throw them ahead of us." or, "I quaff a potion of flying, and then gingerly put my weight on the floor to see if it gives beneath me.", or, "I summon some medium sized animals to walk ahead of us." or whatever your favorite solution is. Creative solutions like that involving rope and 10' poles and normally unused utility spells is what 'Tomb of Horrors' is all about. If you don't experience that, you really haven't experienced the module IMO. And the adaptation is a pretty horrible recreation of the experience of the module. You are correct to assert that the problem is with the 'take 20' and the abstract search method. Exactly what should be done about that is a matter of opinion. There are some here who will argue that the way you see things playing out is exactly how they should play out, and that adventures are meant to be tests of character ability and not player ability. I think they are robbing themselves of alot of fun. [/QUOTE]

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