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Message: <blockquote data-quote="gizmo33" data-source="post: 3699243" data-attributes="member: 30001">I would hazard a guess that 99% of the population (non RPG'ers as well) would not recognize your definition of story telling.  Story telling is when someone sits down and tells you something that happens - A to Z.  There's no aspect of audience choice in conventional story telling.  A movie, or book that tells a story - you read it, it tells you what happens.  The problem with conflating what you're talking about with story telling is that people don't really preserve choices a lot of times in story telling gaming.  They don't accept the fact that you may or may not side with gollum, for example.  I could point to any given instance of this on this board - PC death for example:  your PC died, get over it and make up a new one.  but NO, the DM had his heart set on that particular PC because he had all these events and stuff mapped out.  That's the railroad aspect of story telling - rather than being prepared to handle events, the DM instead has a preference about what they should be, and the real choice that players have in the game is proportionately diminished.And IMO this is where the chinks in the story telling armor start to appear.  "Players deliberately strying to put the story off track" ????  Remember - the story is something (supposedly) that happens AFTER the events, then how can they pull the events "off the track".  Don't the events create the track?  This seems to be to contradict your example of players pulling the story off track.  The players decide to give the ringwraiths the ring, for example.  Now the ringwraiths having the ring IS the story - so why would a DM have an opinion that that's a bad thing?  Because the DM is really engineering the result and claiming not to - otherwise he would just roll with it and there would be no example of a "good story" or "bad story" - just events and the way they were adjucated.</blockquote>

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