Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
S/Z: On the Difficulties of RPG Theory & Criticism
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7920340" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>The only well-developed theoretical and critical approach to RPGs I'm familiar with is The Forge. (That's not to say there aren't others; just that I'm not familiar with them.)</p><p></p><p>The main purpose of The Forge was to understand causes of dissatisfaction with WW/Storyteller-type RPGing, and to establish alternative approaches to design of RPGs. This required some analysis. Some people (eg me) have found the analysis helpful independent of that particular goal (I'm not a RPG designer).</p><p></p><p>For instance, as someone who played Rolemaster as my primary game for nearly two decades, I think The Forge's account of (what they call) purist-for-system RPGing is far more illuminating than (eg) anything I ever read on the ICE forums. As good analysis should, it gave me insight into what I was doing in my game that I didn't previously have. It also helped me understand how I could move away from some of the assumptions embedded in RM's designs without giving up on some of the fundamentals of RPGing.</p><p></p><p>One of the observations made on The Forge which was surprising to some of the participants is that early RPGing was (i) an alternative to WW/Storyteller style which (ii) had many things (not everything) in common with the sort of designs being produced at The Forge. This is why there has been a noticeable presence of Forge contributors in OSR context (eg most recently I discovered that Christopher Kubasik, author of <a href="https://playsorcerer.wordpress.com/2008/07/23/the-interactive-toolkit-an-introduction/" target="_blank">The Interactive Toolkit</a> which is practically a proto-manifesto for The Forge, has <a href="https://talestoastound.wordpress.com/traveller-out-of-the-box/" target="_blank">an ongoing blog</a> in praise of 1977 Classic Traveller).</p><p> </p><p>Obviously most OSR play and design proceeds independently of this convergence. But it's an interesting outcome of Forge theorising.</p><p></p><p>Here's a passage from The Traveller Book (1982, p 123); it is found in a description of types of adventures, and has no equivalent in the 1977 version of Classic Traveller:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">The <em>choreographed novel</em> [my emphasis] involves a setting already thought out by the referee and presented to the players; it may be any of the above settings [ship, location or world], but contains predetermined elements. As such, the referee has already developed characters and setting which bear on the group's activities, and they are guided gently to the proper locations. Properly done, the players never know that the referee has manipulated them to a fore-ordained goal</p><p></p><p>For RPGers who want to use the approach describe in this passage, The Forge has nothing to offer and I don't know of any alternative useful body of criticism. Probably the main reason The Forge has nothing to offer is that The Forge places a great premium on transparency of technique and resolution, whereas the approach set out in the passage just quoted emphasises "gentle guidance" and "manipulation" that the players don't know about. (The Forge calls this <em>illusionism</em>.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7920340, member: 42582"] The only well-developed theoretical and critical approach to RPGs I'm familiar with is The Forge. (That's not to say there aren't others; just that I'm not familiar with them.) The main purpose of The Forge was to understand causes of dissatisfaction with WW/Storyteller-type RPGing, and to establish alternative approaches to design of RPGs. This required some analysis. Some people (eg me) have found the analysis helpful independent of that particular goal (I'm not a RPG designer). For instance, as someone who played Rolemaster as my primary game for nearly two decades, I think The Forge's account of (what they call) purist-for-system RPGing is far more illuminating than (eg) anything I ever read on the ICE forums. As good analysis should, it gave me insight into what I was doing in my game that I didn't previously have. It also helped me understand how I could move away from some of the assumptions embedded in RM's designs without giving up on some of the fundamentals of RPGing. One of the observations made on The Forge which was surprising to some of the participants is that early RPGing was (i) an alternative to WW/Storyteller style which (ii) had many things (not everything) in common with the sort of designs being produced at The Forge. This is why there has been a noticeable presence of Forge contributors in OSR context (eg most recently I discovered that Christopher Kubasik, author of [url=https://playsorcerer.wordpress.com/2008/07/23/the-interactive-toolkit-an-introduction/]The Interactive Toolkit[/url] which is practically a proto-manifesto for The Forge, has [url=https://talestoastound.wordpress.com/traveller-out-of-the-box/]an ongoing blog[/url] in praise of 1977 Classic Traveller). Obviously most OSR play and design proceeds independently of this convergence. But it's an interesting outcome of Forge theorising. Here's a passage from The Traveller Book (1982, p 123); it is found in a description of types of adventures, and has no equivalent in the 1977 version of Classic Traveller: [indent]The [I]choreographed novel[/I] [my emphasis] involves a setting already thought out by the referee and presented to the players; it may be any of the above settings [ship, location or world], but contains predetermined elements. As such, the referee has already developed characters and setting which bear on the group's activities, and they are guided gently to the proper locations. Properly done, the players never know that the referee has manipulated them to a fore-ordained goal[/indent] For RPGers who want to use the approach describe in this passage, The Forge has nothing to offer and I don't know of any alternative useful body of criticism. Probably the main reason The Forge has nothing to offer is that The Forge places a great premium on transparency of technique and resolution, whereas the approach set out in the passage just quoted emphasises "gentle guidance" and "manipulation" that the players don't know about. (The Forge calls this [I]illusionism[/I].) [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
S/Z: On the Difficulties of RPG Theory & Criticism
Top