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S/Z: On the Difficulties of RPG Theory & Criticism
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<blockquote data-quote="Beleriphon" data-source="post: 7928175" data-attributes="member: 27847"><p>That was always my point. I think. I don't htink I personally lost it along the way, but anything is possible these days. I'm not a young as I used to be by any means.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree with with you for sure. I just think it would be helpful to define winning or losing in context of an RPG. It definitely isn't the same as chess, or Catan, or even WoW (maybe closer to WoW, but not the same). That said, perhaps success and failure are better terms, since neither imply an actual end of the process, merely that it will continue on a different track. Different RPGs tend to define success differently, for example FATE getting knocked out of a fight via compels could be a success, despite the character not beating up the bad guys, while D&D would generally consider your character being fiated out of a fight by the GM a loss (and against the informal rules of the game).</p><p></p><p>If it helps when I'm talking about RPGs I generally do so from player perspective. I view the character in the same way as a baseball player views a bat: a necessary tool to participate, but the bat doesn't decide how the game is played, only the player can do that. It's the reason I really, really hate rationalizing being arse as "my character would do that." My only response is "No you did that, because you chose to do that you jerk" Nobody would suggest the bat made the player whomp the pitcher would they? I'd like to have seen A-Rod try that though now that I think about it.</p><p></p><p>Another though, inspired by The Angry GM, and one that both [USER=6799753]@lowkey13[/USER] and I have both referred is the rules aren't the game. However, the rules influence how the game is played. For example, the rules for making a D&D character results in mechanical process that are largely defined by the abilities to kill things in a fight. This encourages the players to use those abilities to kill fictional monsters. I think that kind of feedback loop is important to define, but I'm not really sure how to express it an way that lets us talk about things other than to refer to a feedback loop, since killing things in D&D makes your character better at killing things. I'm sure other rules systems have similar loops.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Beleriphon, post: 7928175, member: 27847"] That was always my point. I think. I don't htink I personally lost it along the way, but anything is possible these days. I'm not a young as I used to be by any means. I agree with with you for sure. I just think it would be helpful to define winning or losing in context of an RPG. It definitely isn't the same as chess, or Catan, or even WoW (maybe closer to WoW, but not the same). That said, perhaps success and failure are better terms, since neither imply an actual end of the process, merely that it will continue on a different track. Different RPGs tend to define success differently, for example FATE getting knocked out of a fight via compels could be a success, despite the character not beating up the bad guys, while D&D would generally consider your character being fiated out of a fight by the GM a loss (and against the informal rules of the game). If it helps when I'm talking about RPGs I generally do so from player perspective. I view the character in the same way as a baseball player views a bat: a necessary tool to participate, but the bat doesn't decide how the game is played, only the player can do that. It's the reason I really, really hate rationalizing being arse as "my character would do that." My only response is "No you did that, because you chose to do that you jerk" Nobody would suggest the bat made the player whomp the pitcher would they? I'd like to have seen A-Rod try that though now that I think about it. Another though, inspired by The Angry GM, and one that both [USER=6799753]@lowkey13[/USER] and I have both referred is the rules aren't the game. However, the rules influence how the game is played. For example, the rules for making a D&D character results in mechanical process that are largely defined by the abilities to kill things in a fight. This encourages the players to use those abilities to kill fictional monsters. I think that kind of feedback loop is important to define, but I'm not really sure how to express it an way that lets us talk about things other than to refer to a feedback loop, since killing things in D&D makes your character better at killing things. I'm sure other rules systems have similar loops. [/QUOTE]
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