Sacred Exorcist and Church Inquisitor Overpowered?

[Methos]

Hi all,

Since I'm starting a new campaign, I'm in the process of establishing which prestige classes will be allowed in the campaign. I like both the Sacred Exorcist and the Church Inquisitor for flavor in the campaign (they just make sense based on the history and metaplot that I have developed), however, as they are written in CD, I personally believe that they are overpowered when compared to a standard Cleric.

In effect, there is no downside for a PC to advance in one of these two prestige classes since you get all of the ongoing benefits of advancing as a cleric with the ability to continue advancement in spells and turning undead, but with increased special powers. I'm looking for suggestions as to how to adjust these 2 classes without altering them too much. My thought is to take away some advancement in spellcasting, and I'm leaning towards at levels 1st and one other level for each (probably around levels 5-7), taking away the increased level advancement as a spellcaster. I think this would probably do the trick, but if anyone else has other suggestions, please let me know.

Note that in my campaign, advancing into a prestige class isn't automatic even if the "technical" requirements are met. I already limit the ability of PC's to take a prestige class in two ways:

1. DM approval is necessary and is based on both character development by the PC and how they roleplay into a prestige class. Depending on the class, I also impose other restrictions that are not immediately clear to the PC on character creation. These requirements might take the form of additional training, a minor task or quest that has to be satisfied, invitations to join by an organization, etc. In effect, the intent is that prestige classes should be rare, and only truly special characters may have them.

2. Once a PC has qualified for a prestige class, they must advance all levels in the prestige class prior to choosing another prestige class. A PC can continue to advance in core classes when they gain levels without restriction. I believe that this campaign rule is consistent with the "exclusive" or "special" nature of the prestige class.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers

Methos

 

[S'mon]

If these PrCs get good Fort save, that would be an obvious thing to remove - nothing about either concept requires good Fort. You could reduce hit die to d6 also.

 

[Seeten]

if you reduce spellcasting, NO ONE will take them.

 

[moritheil]

Personally, I tend to balance PrCs by giving them to the villans as well. This helps shore up respective power levels without making the players feel gimped by the DM.

IIRC the Exorcist and Inquisitor are pretty tame, actually, compared to, say, Incantrix.

 

[UltimaGabe]

Hi all,

Since I'm starting a new campaign, I'm in the process of establishing which prestige classes will be allowed in the campaign. I like both the Sacred Exorcist and the Church Inquisitor for flavor in the campaign (they just make sense based on the history and metaplot that I have developed), however, as they are written in CD, I personally believe that they are overpowered when compared to a standard Cleric.

In effect, there is no downside for a PC to advance in one of these two prestige classes since you get all of the ongoing benefits of advancing as a cleric with the ability to continue advancement in spells and turning undead, but with increased special powers. I'm looking for suggestions as to how to adjust these 2 classes without altering them too much. My thought is to take away some advancement in spellcasting, and I'm leaning towards at levels 1st and one other level for each (probably around levels 5-7), taking away the increased level advancement as a spellcaster. I think this would probably do the trick, but if anyone else has other suggestions, please let me know.

Ah, welcome to the unbridled chaos that is Complete Divine. It's a terrible book, chock full of wonderful nuggets of brokenness such as the ones you have found. (For another example of a broken PrC, take a look at the Radiant Servant of Pelor- it gives you full progression, BETTER turning, the ability to empower and maximize Cure spells, AND Martial Weapon Proficiency- the winner of the WTF? award- for absolutely no cost. At least, if you're a Cleric of Pelor, you'll lose nothing whatsoever by taking this class.) My suggestion is either to not allow it at all, or, at the very least, make them lose the first level of progression. If losing a level or two of progression makes nobody take it, then so be it- if PCs are only taking a class because it gives them a benefit with no drawback, then the class shouldn't have been there to begin with.

 

[Dracomeander]

Note that in my campaign, advancing into a prestige class isn't automatic even if the "technical" requirements are met. I already limit the ability of PC's to take a prestige class in two ways:

1. DM approval is necessary and is based on both character development by the PC and how they roleplay into a prestige class. Depending on the class, I also impose other restrictions that are not immediately clear to the PC on character creation. These requirements might take the form of additional training, a minor task or quest that has to be satisfied, invitations to join by an organization, etc. In effect, the intent is that prestige classes should be rare, and only truly special characters may have them.

I don't see why you feel they are overpowered. They both lose the good Fort save progression and the Church Inquisitors give up improving their Turning ability. The Sacred Exorcist is all about the Turning ability and how to expand its use.

Your restriction #1 quoted above should be a very good additional balance. Both the Church Inquisitor and the Sacred Exocist are role-playing intensive walking plot hooks. If your players are good enough in those areas to qualify for the class in your eyes, why do you feel the need to penalize them for advancing your story?

 

[Dracomeander]

(For another example of a broken PrC, take a look at the Radiant Servant of Pelor- it gives you full progression, BETTER turning, the ability to empower and maximize Cure spells, AND Martial Weapon Proficiency- the winner of the WTF? award- for absolutely no cost. At least, if you're a Cleric of Pelor, you'll lose nothing whatsoever by taking this class.)

Now, I will agree that this one is overpowered. The drop to d6 for hit points doesn't even begin to balance the huge array of extras this class gives.

 

[MoonZar]

Hi all,

Since I'm starting a new campaign, I'm in the process of establishing which prestige classes will be allowed in the campaign. I like both the Sacred Exorcist and the Church Inquisitor for flavor in the campaign (they just make sense based on the history and metaplot that I have developed), however, as they are written in CD, I personally believe that they are overpowered when compared to a standard Cleric.

In effect, there is no downside for a PC to advance in one of these two prestige classes since you get all of the ongoing benefits of advancing as a cleric with the ability to continue advancement in spells and turning undead, but with increased special powers. I'm looking for suggestions as to how to adjust these 2 classes without altering them too much. My thought is to take away some advancement in spellcasting, and I'm leaning towards at levels 1st and one other level for each (probably around levels 5-7), taking away the increased level advancement as a spellcaster. I think this would probably do the trick, but if anyone else has other suggestions, please let me know.

Note that in my campaign, advancing into a prestige class isn't automatic even if the "technical" requirements are met. I already limit the ability of PC's to take a prestige class in two ways:

1. DM approval is necessary and is based on both character development by the PC and how they roleplay into a prestige class. Depending on the class, I also impose other restrictions that are not immediately clear to the PC on character creation. These requirements might take the form of additional training, a minor task or quest that has to be satisfied, invitations to join by an organization, etc. In effect, the intent is that prestige classes should be rare, and only truly special characters may have them.

2. Once a PC has qualified for a prestige class, they must advance all levels in the prestige class prior to choosing another prestige class. A PC can continue to advance in core classes when they gain levels without restriction. I believe that this campaign rule is consistent with the "exclusive" or "special" nature of the prestige class.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers

Methos

Of course they are stronger beside the cleric core class, prestige class are almost everytime stronger beside the core class according to me.

I don't think they are that much powerful, they have responsability to the church this give some restriction to the character that the DM should roleplay.

 

[MoonZar]

if you reduce spellcasting, NO ONE will take them.

You're right !! There is no point to take it without the full spellcasting progression.

You don't have to diminish their power, they are fine like this.

 

[Seeten]

Ah, welcome to the unbridled chaos that is Complete Divine. It's a terrible book, chock full of wonderful nuggets of brokenness such as the ones you have found. (For another example of a broken PrC, take a look at the Radiant Servant of Pelor- it gives you full progression, BETTER turning, the ability to empower and maximize Cure spells, AND Martial Weapon Proficiency- the winner of the WTF? award- for absolutely no cost. At least, if you're a Cleric of Pelor, you'll lose nothing whatsoever by taking this class.) My suggestion is either to not allow it at all, or, at the very least, make them lose the first level of progression. If losing a level or two of progression makes nobody take it, then so be it- if PCs are only taking a class because it gives them a benefit with no drawback, then the class shouldn't have been there to begin with.

He didnt say "A level" he said 5-7 levels.