Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Asgorath" data-source="post: 7570000" data-attributes="member: 6921966">It absolutely works.&nbsp; Natural Explorer's trigger is you travelling alone.&nbsp; While that trigger is true, the triggered effect happens.&nbsp; As soon as the trigger is false, the triggered effect no longer happens.&nbsp; Similarly, the trigger for Ranger's Companion is you being incapacitated or absent.&nbsp; As soon as that trigger is no longer true, the triggered effect no longer happens and the beast stops until you spend an Action to give it an order.&nbsp; Neither of these rules are talking about actions in combat, and so the best analogy is a simple boolean variable in a programming language.&nbsp; While the variable is true, the effect happens.&nbsp; As soon as the variable is false, the effect stops happening.&nbsp; Or, if we don't want to use logic or programming languages, think of it as a light switch.&nbsp; When you turn the light switch to the &quot;on&quot; position, the lights are illuminated.&nbsp; When you turn the switch off, the lights are no longer illuminated.&nbsp; This could be expressed in the 5E rules as &quot;if you turn the switch on, the lights are illuminated&quot; for example, in order to stick with the &quot;if X, Y&quot; style used throughout the rules to describe a trigger.When applying the trigger concept to an action in combat, again this works in a very simple way.&nbsp; Each action in combat is a distinct unit that (typically) instantly resolves.&nbsp; The action may have a lasting effect, such as the Dash action giving you extra movement for the remainder of your turn.&nbsp; There are rules that explicitly add extra attacks to the Attack action, and thus we cannot simply assume that a bonus action attack operates in the same way.&nbsp; If they did, then surely they would use the same wording as the rules that add extra attacks to the Attack action, like Gloom Stalker's Dread Ambusher?Separating these bonus actions that grant weapon attacks or shoves from the ones you take as part of the Attack action is kind of important, especially when it comes to the interaction of those rules with Extra Attack.&nbsp; Similarly, the triggering attack for Shield Master might itself be a shove, and assuming you don't have Extra Attack, then you would not be able to make a weapon attack on your turn.&nbsp; While I agree that the attacks granted by the Two-Weapon Fighting, Shield Master (shove) and Martial Arts are fundamentally the same (i.e. you roll to hit or make an Athletics check etc), the rules absolutely do not say &quot;if you take the Attack action ..., you get an additional attack/shove as part of your Attack action&quot;.&nbsp; You have the Attack action as the trigger, and the bonus action as the triggered effect.&nbsp; The rules for the Attack action are separate from the rules about bonus actions, and thus those two things are distinct units of combat.&nbsp; Again, this is supported by the wording of the Dread Ambusher feature, which grants an extra attack as part of the Attack action.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Asgorath, post: 7570000, member: 6921966"] It absolutely works. Natural Explorer's trigger is you travelling alone. While that trigger is true, the triggered effect happens. As soon as the trigger is false, the triggered effect no longer happens. Similarly, the trigger for Ranger's Companion is you being incapacitated or absent. As soon as that trigger is no longer true, the triggered effect no longer happens and the beast stops until you spend an Action to give it an order. Neither of these rules are talking about actions in combat, and so the best analogy is a simple boolean variable in a programming language. While the variable is true, the effect happens. As soon as the variable is false, the effect stops happening. Or, if we don't want to use logic or programming languages, think of it as a light switch. When you turn the light switch to the "on" position, the lights are illuminated. When you turn the switch off, the lights are no longer illuminated. This could be expressed in the 5E rules as "if you turn the switch on, the lights are illuminated" for example, in order to stick with the "if X, Y" style used throughout the rules to describe a trigger. When applying the trigger concept to an action in combat, again this works in a very simple way. Each action in combat is a distinct unit that (typically) instantly resolves. The action may have a lasting effect, such as the Dash action giving you extra movement for the remainder of your turn. There are rules that explicitly add extra attacks to the Attack action, and thus we cannot simply assume that a bonus action attack operates in the same way. If they did, then surely they would use the same wording as the rules that add extra attacks to the Attack action, like Gloom Stalker's Dread Ambusher? Separating these bonus actions that grant weapon attacks or shoves from the ones you take as part of the Attack action is kind of important, especially when it comes to the interaction of those rules with Extra Attack. Similarly, the triggering attack for Shield Master might itself be a shove, and assuming you don't have Extra Attack, then you would not be able to make a weapon attack on your turn. While I agree that the attacks granted by the Two-Weapon Fighting, Shield Master (shove) and Martial Arts are fundamentally the same (i.e. you roll to hit or make an Athletics check etc), the rules absolutely do not say "if you take the Attack action ..., you get an additional attack/shove as part of your Attack action". You have the Attack action as the trigger, and the bonus action as the triggered effect. The rules for the Attack action are separate from the rules about bonus actions, and thus those two things are distinct units of combat. Again, this is supported by the wording of the Dread Ambusher feature, which grants an extra attack as part of the Attack action. [/QUOTE]

Verification