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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Arial Black" data-source="post: 7573900" data-attributes="member: 6799649">Sure I quoted the relevant part instead of the whole thing, and doing that could be a 'foul', if the entire quote would show that it would lead to the opposite conclusion.But here, the whole rule has the same implications as the part I quoted; that 'improvised weapons' are not 'weapons'."Things that are true, are true.""Things that are not true, are not true.""Things cannot be both true and not true at the same time."Objects are what they are. Even if you use an object as if it were a different object, it doesn't change what the object actually is."Dueling. When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon."Now, the original version said, "...no other weapon or shield...". I hated that they took the 'or shield' away. For me, I liked that there were styles for the four basic combat styles: single weapon, two-handed weapon, two weapons, and weapon + shield. This change, allowing the style intended for 'single weapon' to be used when using a shield, especially when shield-users got their own Fighting Style thing, takes away that 'single weapon' niche.So I houserule the 'or shield' back into the Dueling style in games I DM.But, if 'improvised weapons' were 'weapons', then I wouldn't need a houserule! Literally anything in my off hand would be a 'weapon', and would prevent Dueling style!Got a shield? No +2 damage for you, because shields are weapons now!Wearing a glove? Wearing a ring? Tough, no +2 damage for you, because they are 'weapons' now!An object is what it is, and isn't what it isn't. It cannot be both at the same time.A shield either is a 'weapon', or it isn't. Which is it?If we were playing 3e, the answer is definitely 'yes'. Shields are on the Weapons table, as light or medium melee weapons, and can be used in TWF.But in 5e, shields are not 'weapons'. They are not on the Weapons table, do not prevent you getting +2 damage from the Dueling style (unfortunately!) on the grounds that they are not 'weapons'!, and although you can hit someone with a shield via the Improvised Weapons rules (which allow objects that are not 'weapons' to be used to make an attack), they therefore cannot be used in TWF because TWF specifies 'weapons'.As an aside (despite seeing the results of my last aside!), shields are not armour either.</blockquote>

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