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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DND_Reborn" data-source="post: 7575069" data-attributes="member: 6987520">It is not in the PHB, it is a from a JC comment. As I said earlier, I am not going to waste my time finding it just to satisfy you. Instead I will simply direct you to the latest SA on the Shield Master feat:Shield Master[NEW] The Shield Master feat lets you shove someone as a bonus action if you take the Attack action. Can you take that bonus action before the Attack action? No. The bonus action provided by the Shield Master feat has a precondition: that you take the Attack action on your turn. Intending to take that action isn’t sufficient; you must actually take it before you can take the bonus action. During your turn, you do get to decide when to take the bonus action after you’ve taken the Attack action. This sort of if-then setup appears in many of the game’s rules. The “if” must be satisfied before the “then” comes into play.The text "During your turn, you do get to decide when to take the bonus action after you’ve taken the Attack action." clearly indicates you can decide when to take the bonus action AFTER you've taken the Attack action. The timing has now been specified: after you've taken the Attack action. You are no longer free to take it whenever you want.You don't. How can you have taken the Attack action without Making an Attack and proceeding to the Steps to do so? To say you are taking the Attack action and then ignore what needs to follow to constitute taking the Attack action is nonsensical.No, cause and effect are not simultaneous. Of course they are not. No one ever said they were, did they? But to satisfy the cause of taking the attack action you must make an attack, otherwise you have not taken the Attack action. You have not taken the Attack action until you choose a target for your attack (Step 1 from Making an Attack). There is no time in-between taking the Attack action and making your attack. If you say you are taking the Attack action, then Shove before Making an Attack, you are setting yourself up for paradox as in the scenario I proposed in post #952.What I don't understand is the point of all this at this stage. Can you simply not accept how this works? Do you feel you need to debate it to justify the fact that you want to be able to utilize the Shove bonus action before making your attacks on your turn? It is simply enough to just house-rule it. As JC states, the bonus action comes AFTER the Attack action. How can you be after the Attack action if you have not taken it. To start to take it, is not to have taken it.For our group we'll probably just house-rule it to allow the Shove after you have made at least one attack. I'm done debating it. If you want to rule it your way feel free. If I have the time and find the JC quote, I WILL POST IT just to satisfy you and others like you. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Until then have a great game!</blockquote>

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