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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7575377" data-attributes="member: 16814">Dude, lower your voice; hitpoints are right there.More seriously, your opinions about what constitutes fictional fidelity with actions is your opinion.  It's not the design basis for the game designers (who will be using thier own).  D&D is chock full of mechanics that require resolution before being described in the fiction; you're just used to them and no longer notice.Personally, I don't have any problem with narrating the shield bash after the attack.  The attack sets up the foe by unbalancing them enough for a skilled warrior to take advantage with a well-timed shield bash that sends the foe staggering or knocks them down.  Ta-da!  I think the problem here is that you already have a fiction in mind and want the gane to model that instead of seeing what the gane models and then narrating that.In another ongoing thread, I made the observation that there are players that want the fictional state to drive the mechanics, ie they consider all of the fictional inputs going into the action and choose the appropriate mechanical test that fits those inputs.  Call this resolution at the end.  This method tends toward identifying the outcome and then resolving if that happens or not.On the other side, if there's a question mechanics are used and the results determine what some of the fictional inputs must have been to generate that outcome.  Call this resolution in the middle. This method leaves outcomes more open ended to accommodate fiction.D&D cribs from both.  Ability checks are endian because the current situation  determines the check type and DC.  Hitpoints are middlish because the fictional outcome adapts to the resolution.  Shield Master is between these two ends.  It's inputs are not based on the fiction, but it's outputs are fixed in the fiction.  This causes issues with players that prefer the first path.4e is chock full of this kind of middlish resolution, and that was/is one of the major fronts of the edition war.</blockquote>

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