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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DND_Reborn" data-source="post: 7575394" data-attributes="member: 6987520">Well said! Of course, I don't know so much about the reference to Jeremy pulling something out of his posterior...Otherwise, I think you are right. While my posts have been vehemently in favor of understanding the official stance, I don't agree with it either. Like you I agree the Shove attack works narratively coming first, in the middle, or last. It makes no difference to me personally and I would play with a DM who runs it either way without any qualms. I feel it is more useful allowing the Shove to happen first, but not essential. Other aspects of the feat are still very good given the proper situations.Writing Shield Master as "If you take the Attack action on your turn, you may take an additional attack that you can use to shove a creature within 5 feet of you with your shield."Now, this doesn't cost action economy since you aren't spending your Bonus action, but it shouldn't be OP even given that and further testing would prove it out either way. It could be worded that making the additional attack to shove deprives you of taking any bonus action on that turn.Another option would be this (or along similar lines)"If you use one of your attacks to shove a creature on your turn, you gain advantage on the Strength (Athletics) check for that attack by using your shield."Again, word to deprive bonus action or not.In SA Jeremy comments that the Eldritch Knight ability, War Magic, "That said, a DM would break nothing in the system by allowing an Eldritch Knight to reverse the order of the cantrip and the weapon attack."Does it break anything by allowing the shove prior to the attack? Probably not. However, apparently enough issues came up that the powers that be felt it was important to reverse his prior ruling. And so now we are stuck with the shove coming after you've completed the Attack action as a whole. People can house-rule it or ignore the reversal if it suits their game, or just play without Feats and then they don't have to worry about it at all! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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