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<blockquote data-quote="Hriston" data-source="post: 7577116" data-attributes="member: 6787503"><p>But I may satisfy it later on my turn. If I take the Attack action later on my turn, then I took the Attack action on my turn but you didn't allow me to use a bonus action to shove a creature. That isn't following the rule.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Then you only shoved on your turn. How is that a problem? It isn't breaking anything.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Of course not! The shove attempt is always resolved the same way whether you use a bonus action to do it or not. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You can shove a creature without using a bonus action any time you like, though. The benefit of the feat is it lets you shove a creature AND take the Attack action on your turn. It's an added benefit!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Right, which invokes the general rule for bonus actions. "You choose when to take a bonus action during your turn, unless the bonus action's timing is specified," so following the RAI established by Jeremy Crawford's original ruling on the Eldritch Knight's War Magic feature, you choose when during your turn to take the bonus action shove because its timing isn't specified.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is just you adding things to the example. It's also like saying you can't shove a creature without using a bonus action, which you obviously can.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No, you'd still need to take the Attack action on your turn for your shove-attempt to use a bonus action.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No, that isn't my reasoning at all. My reasoning is that the conditional language of the feat requires that the shield master's total activity for his/her turn is considered when fitting it into the action economy. This doesn't create a paradox because all that happens in a shove-first scenario is either that the shield master attempts to shove a creature, or that the shield master attempts to shove a creature and also takes the Attack action. There's nothing paradoxical about either of those situations. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>My point is that although the official interpretation is one of at least two valid interpretations, it goes against the stated RAI for bonus actions of this sort, and when given a choice, I'll take playing the game as it was intended to be played, rather than go with an unintended interpretation just because it's considered to be more literal. I can see why Jeremy Crawford might express such an interpretation, but I don't quite understand why anyone would want to play that way. On the other hand, as I said, it wouldn't be a deal-breaker.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I found this tweet from Jeremy dated March 10, 2016: <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>Does Shove qualify you to use the bonus attack in Two Weapon Fighting or Martial Arts?</strong> The shove and grapple options don't involve an attack with a weapon or an unarmed strike, so no.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, a shove-attempt <em>could</em> satisfy the condition for using a bonus action to make another shove-attempt, but the point I was making is only tangentially related. The point I was making has to do with the idea of being <em>committed</em> to taking the Attack action. If you shove a creature, then you're either taking the Attack action to make that shove-attempt, or you're using a bonus action conditioned on taking the Attack action, so either way you're committed to taking the Attack action. The Eldritch Knight's War Magic feature doesn't have this quality because making a weapon attack in no way commits you to casting a cantrip.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm sorry, but if your goal here is to clear things up, you're barking up the wrong tree. I already understand the official ruling, and I disagree with it. No amount of explaining it to me is going to change that. I also disagree that it requires a house-rule to play out of accordance with the official ruling.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hriston, post: 7577116, member: 6787503"] But I may satisfy it later on my turn. If I take the Attack action later on my turn, then I took the Attack action on my turn but you didn't allow me to use a bonus action to shove a creature. That isn't following the rule. Then you only shoved on your turn. How is that a problem? It isn't breaking anything. Of course not! The shove attempt is always resolved the same way whether you use a bonus action to do it or not. You can shove a creature without using a bonus action any time you like, though. The benefit of the feat is it lets you shove a creature AND take the Attack action on your turn. It's an added benefit! Right, which invokes the general rule for bonus actions. "You choose when to take a bonus action during your turn, unless the bonus action's timing is specified," so following the RAI established by Jeremy Crawford's original ruling on the Eldritch Knight's War Magic feature, you choose when during your turn to take the bonus action shove because its timing isn't specified. This is just you adding things to the example. It's also like saying you can't shove a creature without using a bonus action, which you obviously can. No, you'd still need to take the Attack action on your turn for your shove-attempt to use a bonus action. No, that isn't my reasoning at all. My reasoning is that the conditional language of the feat requires that the shield master's total activity for his/her turn is considered when fitting it into the action economy. This doesn't create a paradox because all that happens in a shove-first scenario is either that the shield master attempts to shove a creature, or that the shield master attempts to shove a creature and also takes the Attack action. There's nothing paradoxical about either of those situations. My point is that although the official interpretation is one of at least two valid interpretations, it goes against the stated RAI for bonus actions of this sort, and when given a choice, I'll take playing the game as it was intended to be played, rather than go with an unintended interpretation just because it's considered to be more literal. I can see why Jeremy Crawford might express such an interpretation, but I don't quite understand why anyone would want to play that way. On the other hand, as I said, it wouldn't be a deal-breaker. I found this tweet from Jeremy dated March 10, 2016: [INDENT][B]Does Shove qualify you to use the bonus attack in Two Weapon Fighting or Martial Arts?[/B] The shove and grapple options don't involve an attack with a weapon or an unarmed strike, so no.[/INDENT] Well, a shove-attempt [I]could[/I] satisfy the condition for using a bonus action to make another shove-attempt, but the point I was making is only tangentially related. The point I was making has to do with the idea of being [I]committed[/I] to taking the Attack action. If you shove a creature, then you're either taking the Attack action to make that shove-attempt, or you're using a bonus action conditioned on taking the Attack action, so either way you're committed to taking the Attack action. The Eldritch Knight's War Magic feature doesn't have this quality because making a weapon attack in no way commits you to casting a cantrip. I'm sorry, but if your goal here is to clear things up, you're barking up the wrong tree. I already understand the official ruling, and I disagree with it. No amount of explaining it to me is going to change that. I also disagree that it requires a house-rule to play out of accordance with the official ruling. [/QUOTE]
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