Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Sage Advice Compendium Update 1/30/2019
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Arial Black" data-source="post: 7577440" data-attributes="member: 6799649"><p>And yet your case relies on 'rules' <em>that are not rules</em> that <em>you</em> choose to apply to one Action-the Attack action-but not to the others. You don't even realise that you're doing this! </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Wait! <em>I</em> was going to say that to <em>you!</em></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't mind if a post is long, as long as it is interesting. Yours is interesting. Incorrect, but interesting. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>...and no rule that says you <em>can't</em> do that thing, agreed.</p><p></p><p>Like the rules say you <em>can</em> take your bonus action whenever you want in your turn, and <strong>no</strong> rule saying you <em>can't</em> take it <em>during</em> an action.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>A tempting assumption, but unfounded. This cannot be relied upon in any way.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>While I agree that specific spells do not count as general rules in and of themselves, it is the case that the wording of some spells reveal how some general rules work.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>What you've done here, with many correct examples, is draw the wrong conclusion.</p><p></p><p>Yes, the elements must be discrete, and must be in a definite order, and must be resolved sequentially. I agree.</p><p></p><p>But, no, Actions In Combat are not necessarily discrete elements themselves!</p><p></p><p>With Extra Attack for example, it's not the Attack <em>action</em> that is a single discrete element, it's <em>each individual attack</em> which is a discrete element!</p><p></p><p>Yes, you must have each 5 feet of movement, each attack, each shield bash, each opportunity attack, in a definite order and resolved sequentially. Even if two discrete elements <em>occur</em> simultaneously, the rules require us to <em>resolve</em> them sequentially.</p><p></p><p>But no, the Attack <em>action</em>, with Extra Attack, is <strong>not</strong> a discrete element in and of itself! I really think that <em>this</em> is where <em>you've</em> gone off the rails and it's forcing you to make conclusions that are not supported by the words in the PHB. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Agreed. And there are <em>also</em> periods of time on your turn that are "during your action", when you have Extra Attack. The passage you quote regards a single attack, which IS a discrete element, so there is no 'during' in that case for that paragraph to mention.</p><p></p><p>But that paragraph is <strong>not</strong> a rule that forbids you from doing anything <em>between</em> elements that <em>are</em> discrete, nor addresses how Extra Attack <em>changes</em> the situation, because although there is no 'during' when there is only one element, there IS a 'during' when you have two or more discrete elements in one Action In Combat.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>FIFY.</strong></p><p></p><p>Again, my turn is constructed of elements that are explicitly allowed by rules in the PHB. At no point do I have to guess or infer something, I'm using the actual words in the PHB. These elements must be played and resolved in order.</p><p></p><p>The rules say I <em>can</em> take the Attack action, they say I <em>can</em> take a bonus action shield shove if I take the Attack action on my turn, the rules say I <em>can</em> take my bonus action whenever I want as soon as I have it, and if the relationship between this Action and this bonus action is one of 'cause and effect', then I <em>can</em> let them coincide, and because they coincide then I <em>can</em> choose the order in which those individual elements are resolved.</p><p></p><p>I have limited myself only to those things the rules say I <em>can</em> do, and I have nowhere done anything the rules say I <em>can't</em> do!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Arial Black, post: 7577440, member: 6799649"] And yet your case relies on 'rules' [i]that are not rules[/i] that [i]you[/i] choose to apply to one Action-the Attack action-but not to the others. You don't even realise that you're doing this! Wait! [i]I[/i] was going to say that to [i]you![/i] I don't mind if a post is long, as long as it is interesting. Yours is interesting. Incorrect, but interesting. ;) ...and no rule that says you [i]can't[/i] do that thing, agreed. Like the rules say you [i]can[/i] take your bonus action whenever you want in your turn, and [b]no[/b] rule saying you [i]can't[/i] take it [i]during[/i] an action. A tempting assumption, but unfounded. This cannot be relied upon in any way. While I agree that specific spells do not count as general rules in and of themselves, it is the case that the wording of some spells reveal how some general rules work. What you've done here, with many correct examples, is draw the wrong conclusion. Yes, the elements must be discrete, and must be in a definite order, and must be resolved sequentially. I agree. But, no, Actions In Combat are not necessarily discrete elements themselves! With Extra Attack for example, it's not the Attack [i]action[/i] that is a single discrete element, it's [i]each individual attack[/i] which is a discrete element! Yes, you must have each 5 feet of movement, each attack, each shield bash, each opportunity attack, in a definite order and resolved sequentially. Even if two discrete elements [i]occur[/i] simultaneously, the rules require us to [i]resolve[/i] them sequentially. But no, the Attack [i]action[/i], with Extra Attack, is [b]not[/b] a discrete element in and of itself! I really think that [i]this[/i] is where [i]you've[/i] gone off the rails and it's forcing you to make conclusions that are not supported by the words in the PHB. Agreed. And there are [i]also[/i] periods of time on your turn that are "during your action", when you have Extra Attack. The passage you quote regards a single attack, which IS a discrete element, so there is no 'during' in that case for that paragraph to mention. But that paragraph is [b]not[/b] a rule that forbids you from doing anything [i]between[/i] elements that [i]are[/i] discrete, nor addresses how Extra Attack [i]changes[/i] the situation, because although there is no 'during' when there is only one element, there IS a 'during' when you have two or more discrete elements in one Action In Combat. [b]FIFY.[/B] Again, my turn is constructed of elements that are explicitly allowed by rules in the PHB. At no point do I have to guess or infer something, I'm using the actual words in the PHB. These elements must be played and resolved in order. The rules say I [i]can[/i] take the Attack action, they say I [i]can[/i] take a bonus action shield shove if I take the Attack action on my turn, the rules say I [i]can[/i] take my bonus action whenever I want as soon as I have it, and if the relationship between this Action and this bonus action is one of 'cause and effect', then I [i]can[/i] let them coincide, and because they coincide then I [i]can[/i] choose the order in which those individual elements are resolved. I have limited myself only to those things the rules say I [i]can[/i] do, and I have nowhere done anything the rules say I [i]can't[/i] do! [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Sage Advice Compendium Update 1/30/2019
Top