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<blockquote data-quote="DND_Reborn" data-source="post: 7578370" data-attributes="member: 6987520"><p>What does anything you said here have to do with my post? The thread is about SA, which obviously I've read since I've quoted it numerous times. Watch! I'm about to do it again in a bit! Also, I do <em>not</em> come to your understanding in the case of Shield Master that there are "multiple valid interpretations", only that DMs are free to change the rules to meet the desires of their tables through house-rules. Which, incidentally, is what you are doing.</p><p></p><p>I will post this one more time, and maybe this time you will actually address my points in it. You have yet to do so about this part of prior posts.</p><p></p><p>Read this <em>carefully</em>! (Now, you might be tempted to not read it, thinking "Oh, I've read it before." but don't. Read it.)</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><em>Shield Master</em></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">[NEW] <strong>The Shield Master feat lets you shove someone as a bonus action if you take the Attack action. Can you take that bonus action before the Attack action?</strong> <strong><u><em><span style="color: #0000FF">No</span></em></u></strong>. The bonus action provided by the Shield Master feat has a <strong><u><em><span style="color: #0000FF">precondition</span></em></u></strong>: that you take the Attack action on your turn. <u>Intending to take that action isn’t sufficient; you must actually take it before you can take the bonus action</u>. During your turn, <u>you do get to decide when to take the bonus action after you’ve taken the Attack action</u>. This sort of if-then setup appears in many of the game’s rules. The “if” must be satisfied before the “then” comes into play.</p><p></p><p>That's it. Right there. Do you see it? </p><p></p><p>First part: Simple question: Can you take that bonus action before the Attack action? Simple answer: <strong>NO</strong>.</p><p></p><p><strong>NO.</strong> Can that be any plainer? Yet you continue to argue you can take the bonus action first. Why? He is answering the question right there in SA. And while his tweets aren't official rules, SA is. I'll quote it for you, "Official rulings on how to interpret rules are made here in the Sage Advice Compendium by the game’s lead rules designer, Jeremy Crawford."</p><p></p><p>Next part: <strong>Precondition</strong>. Definition: <em>precondition</em> - something that must come before or is necessary to a subsequent result. The Attack action must come before the subsequent result of gaining the bonus action.</p><p></p><p>Next part: the text "Intending to that that action isn't sufficient; <strong>you must actually take it [the Attack action] before you can take the bonus action</strong>." Again, you must take the Attack action before you can take the bonus action. By your logic you are not in fact taking the Attack action first, you are trying to take it after the bonus action.</p><p></p><p>Last part: the text "you do get to decide when to take the bonus action <strong>after you’ve taken the Attack action</strong>." after you've taken = after you have taken. This is past tense. <em>PAST</em>. The Attack action must have been taken before you get to decide when to take the bonus action. You are deciding to take it before you have even taken the Attack action. You are not following the official ruling on Shield Master. You are house-ruling it.</p><p></p><p>Will you address these points? They are all contained in the SA, released by WotC and the D&D team, and official content and rulings on how to interpret rules. But you continue to interpret them otherwise...</p><p></p><p>Obviously, you don't agree with JC's interpretation. That's not what I am posting about. Of course you are free to change a rule anyway your group wants. But if you deviate from the official ruling you are making a house-rule--which (and I could be wrong about this, but I don't ever recall you admitting it) you have yet to admit you are doing.</p><p></p><p>I will <em>not</em> reply to any post you make unless you are specifically addressing the points I have made here. If you do not address them, I must believe you do understand the intent of Shield Master, the official ruling from SA, and are simply being argumentative.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure can! 20 pages is nothing, we'll be there by next week! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DND_Reborn, post: 7578370, member: 6987520"] What does anything you said here have to do with my post? The thread is about SA, which obviously I've read since I've quoted it numerous times. Watch! I'm about to do it again in a bit! Also, I do [I]not[/I] come to your understanding in the case of Shield Master that there are "multiple valid interpretations", only that DMs are free to change the rules to meet the desires of their tables through house-rules. Which, incidentally, is what you are doing. I will post this one more time, and maybe this time you will actually address my points in it. You have yet to do so about this part of prior posts. Read this [I]carefully[/I]! (Now, you might be tempted to not read it, thinking "Oh, I've read it before." but don't. Read it.) [INDENT][I]Shield Master[/I] [NEW] [B]The Shield Master feat lets you shove someone as a bonus action if you take the Attack action. Can you take that bonus action before the Attack action?[/B] [B][U][I][COLOR="#0000FF"]No[/COLOR][/I][/U][/B]. The bonus action provided by the Shield Master feat has a [B][U][I][COLOR="#0000FF"]precondition[/COLOR][/I][/U][/B]: that you take the Attack action on your turn. [U]Intending to take that action isn’t sufficient; you must actually take it before you can take the bonus action[/U]. During your turn, [U]you do get to decide when to take the bonus action after you’ve taken the Attack action[/U]. This sort of if-then setup appears in many of the game’s rules. The “if” must be satisfied before the “then” comes into play.[/INDENT] That's it. Right there. Do you see it? First part: Simple question: Can you take that bonus action before the Attack action? Simple answer: [B]NO[/B]. [B]NO.[/B] Can that be any plainer? Yet you continue to argue you can take the bonus action first. Why? He is answering the question right there in SA. And while his tweets aren't official rules, SA is. I'll quote it for you, "Official rulings on how to interpret rules are made here in the Sage Advice Compendium by the game’s lead rules designer, Jeremy Crawford." Next part: [B]Precondition[/B]. Definition: [I]precondition[/I] - something that must come before or is necessary to a subsequent result. The Attack action must come before the subsequent result of gaining the bonus action. Next part: the text "Intending to that that action isn't sufficient; [B]you must actually take it [the Attack action] before you can take the bonus action[/B]." Again, you must take the Attack action before you can take the bonus action. By your logic you are not in fact taking the Attack action first, you are trying to take it after the bonus action. Last part: the text "you do get to decide when to take the bonus action [B]after you’ve taken the Attack action[/B]." after you've taken = after you have taken. This is past tense. [I]PAST[/I]. The Attack action must have been taken before you get to decide when to take the bonus action. You are deciding to take it before you have even taken the Attack action. You are not following the official ruling on Shield Master. You are house-ruling it. Will you address these points? They are all contained in the SA, released by WotC and the D&D team, and official content and rulings on how to interpret rules. But you continue to interpret them otherwise... Obviously, you don't agree with JC's interpretation. That's not what I am posting about. Of course you are free to change a rule anyway your group wants. But if you deviate from the official ruling you are making a house-rule--which (and I could be wrong about this, but I don't ever recall you admitting it) you have yet to admit you are doing. I will [I]not[/I] reply to any post you make unless you are specifically addressing the points I have made here. If you do not address them, I must believe you do understand the intent of Shield Master, the official ruling from SA, and are simply being argumentative. Sure can! 20 pages is nothing, we'll be there by next week! :D [/QUOTE]
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