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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Saeviomagy" data-source="post: 1836908" data-attributes="member: 5890">I think it's a lot more fun to let my players actually play, rather than saying "nope, you don't know anything about ships or sailing, so you HAVE to release the crew. Muhhahaha."I don't. I fail to see the point of inventing (essentially) new skills to cover what already exists. Players will simply never be able to keep up.I would expect adventurers to be able to create a vast temple dome using craft, not profession. They're making something. Beyond that - I'd say that intelligence and not wisdom is going to be the driving attribute. Further I'd expect them to be able to put together a ramshackle roof over something with no skill at all, merely describing what it is that they actually do.I'd expect adventurers to be able to find a vein of ore with search checks (assuming they're visible), by describing their actions to my satisfaction("I turn into a thoqqua and dig around for a while until I taste gold", or "I contact the elemental plane of earth and ask them to show me the money").I'm not going to say "nope, sorry, only people with profession(miner) can dig".I'd say that the DC 15 check is what's required to read the lay of the land, the positions of the stars and anything else to get from a point he knows about to another point he knows about.Otherwise you're saying that most people, without any sort of pressure on them at all, cannot walk into a forest and then walk back out again more than half the time.See - my problem here is this.You are effectively making up skills which didn't otherwise exist for the sole reason of penalising the players which don't have those new skills. Ie - all of them.You're saying "Nooo. Survival doesn't work anymore. Now you need profession(navigator)."Suppose I have a plainsman. He has survival. Would you stop his survival skill from working in a forest? In a jungle? In the arctic? On a mountain? Underground? They're no different to being out at sea.If the answer was yes to any of those, then maybe you should have said that BEFORE the campaign started, before I made my character, and certainly before it became crucial to use that skill in that environment. Maybe you should have put some serious thought into the mechanics of it. Perhaps one evironment per rank? Or totally seperate skills for each environment? Or something in between.If you're looking at a plot which will involve the PC's potentially using a boat, then maybe you should consider actually working out the mechanics of that ahead of time. Maybe you should consider telling the PC's that they DON'T know how to run the boat. They are there. They have little to do but watch the crew work.Otherwise you're effectively changing the rules after the fact, and if you're going to do that, then you damn well better be changing them to make the game more fun.And telling a PC "no, only the NPC's can do that" is a sure-fire way to kill fun.</blockquote>

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