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Salvageable Innovations from 4e for Nonenthusiasts
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<blockquote data-quote="JamesonCourage" data-source="post: 5596777" data-attributes="member: 6668292"><p>I'd assume what's really getting in the way here is the action economy, not the hit points of the enemies (as you can definitely crank up damage enough to bring down 1st level characters in most systems I've seen once you've achieved a high enough "level" [whatever "level" means in games without them]).</p><p></p><p>The action economy is the real "simulation" killer for most systems. I wouldn't blame it on "mook" status. On top of that, I wouldn't say that unless you're trying to simulate film (or another medium), you probably shouldn't necessarily be using movies as a comparison.</p><p></p><p>I love Mutants and Masterminds, and I feel it simulates the feel of the superhero genre quite well. Can it do everything that happens in comics / movies / shows? I'm assuming not. But, I'd say that's more of a problem with the action economy most of the time. It's still a great game, and in my mind, it simulates the feel I want superbly.</p><p></p><p>At any rate, what I'm saying is that "mooks" is a scaling term, when you're using different comparisons. If you're comparing orcs to Aragorn, you should probably know Aragorns relative power before thinking about how the orcs fit in comparatively (as they must be significantly weaker than Aragorn). If you're comparing storm troopers in a Star Wars setting, it's going to be very different (because they get owned by everyone but rebel soldiers, it seems), as you have to compare it to an entirely new setting (and you're not comparing it to, say, Luke Skywalker).</p><p></p><p>Anyways, even though I'm not wording things well at the moment, I'm just pointing out that anyone making assumptions as to the basic power of the average individual in a particular setting is basically leaving themselves open to being disagreed with. People envision settings differently. Simulating a particular setting is a very individual thing.</p><p></p><p>I hope you know what I'm at least talking about. If not, oh well, I'm not going to go any deeper into it, as I would have failed at explaining it. But, like I said, I'm not judging anyone. Play what you like <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JamesonCourage, post: 5596777, member: 6668292"] I'd assume what's really getting in the way here is the action economy, not the hit points of the enemies (as you can definitely crank up damage enough to bring down 1st level characters in most systems I've seen once you've achieved a high enough "level" [whatever "level" means in games without them]). The action economy is the real "simulation" killer for most systems. I wouldn't blame it on "mook" status. On top of that, I wouldn't say that unless you're trying to simulate film (or another medium), you probably shouldn't necessarily be using movies as a comparison. I love Mutants and Masterminds, and I feel it simulates the feel of the superhero genre quite well. Can it do everything that happens in comics / movies / shows? I'm assuming not. But, I'd say that's more of a problem with the action economy most of the time. It's still a great game, and in my mind, it simulates the feel I want superbly. At any rate, what I'm saying is that "mooks" is a scaling term, when you're using different comparisons. If you're comparing orcs to Aragorn, you should probably know Aragorns relative power before thinking about how the orcs fit in comparatively (as they must be significantly weaker than Aragorn). If you're comparing storm troopers in a Star Wars setting, it's going to be very different (because they get owned by everyone but rebel soldiers, it seems), as you have to compare it to an entirely new setting (and you're not comparing it to, say, Luke Skywalker). Anyways, even though I'm not wording things well at the moment, I'm just pointing out that anyone making assumptions as to the basic power of the average individual in a particular setting is basically leaving themselves open to being disagreed with. People envision settings differently. Simulating a particular setting is a very individual thing. I hope you know what I'm at least talking about. If not, oh well, I'm not going to go any deeper into it, as I would have failed at explaining it. But, like I said, I'm not judging anyone. Play what you like :) [/QUOTE]
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